Double Boot or RTP

WebWeb Posts: 78 Baller
I've skied double boots forever. Now I might just be getting old, but last season my rear ankle started to bother me when inflecting. I started to loosen the back boot so I could lift my heel more. I see Jason McClintock just switched over to RTP. Nate, Will, TGas, Mapple... all of them prefer RTP. I'm considering the switch, any other double-booters out there who have made the switch care to weigh in? Any that have tried it and went back to the rear boot instead? Thanks.

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,728 Administrator
    @why do you want to lift your heel?

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  • ChadWChadW Posts: 99 Baller
    I tried to switch to an RTP last spring, but I didn't like it. To me, the ski felt different every pass because of the free feel of the RTP. Buy it and try it, if it doesn't work I'm sure you can return it. That's what Performance did for me.
  • WebWeb Posts: 78 Baller
    @Horton - I may be masking something else, but on wakes and edge change with my back knee dropping down, it seems I don't get the range of motion with my heel locked down. I've been working on stretches and strength this winter, but nervous about straining it again.
  • rockdogrockdog Posts: 533 Crazy Baller
    Reflex R-style. I haven't looked back, best of both worlds.
    jayskiPat M
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,630
    edited February 2015
    I run my rear Vector quite loose on the top bungee and its quite easy for me to lift my heal when cruising along. I'm not conscious of it moving when I'm running buoys but I suspect that it might, returning a rear kicker however... I don't think so. If your looking for that little bit of extra flex then I suspect your on the right track (running your rear boot loose) but don't expect to pickup half a pass by making the change to a kicker.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski: KD Platinum

  • GAJ0004GAJ0004 Posts: 1,059 Baller
    I started with a RTP, and I tried a double boot about 20 years ago. I liked the double boot better. I don't tighten the rear as much as the front. I could never go back to a RTP. I just don't feel as secure in the ski. I keep my feet as close together as possible since that gives more freedom of movement.
    Gary Janzig Streetsboro Ohio, skis at Lake Latonka, Mercer Pennsylvania slalom,trick,kneeboard,barefoot
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,728 Administrator
    @Web
    on wakes and edge change with my back knee dropping down

    Can you expand on this. I do not really understand what you are saying.

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  • WebWeb Posts: 78 Baller
    I am trying to stay connected and not stand up early. Seems I have to absorb more at wakes to keep low. So my back knee bends forward. With a little loss of mobility in the ankle over the years, it feels better to lift the heel.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,728 Administrator
    edited February 2015
    @Web First of all I think the pros you name like the mobility at the ball.

    You picking up your real heel at the wakes sounds like a bad idea to me. I would have to see you ski but it really seems like you are losing both power and balance.

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  • WebWeb Posts: 78 Baller
    I'm sure you are right about wakes.... it seems exiting wakes and setting up for edge change is when I want more flex. I'll loosen that back up and pay some attention to it. Just don't want to over flex the rear ankle because heel is locked down. That hurt me last year.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,757 Mega Baller
    edited February 2015
    How many of those "RTP" pros are on a release (Reflext, etc.) front binding? I think many who chose a releasable front binding go with RTP out of fears of releasing only 1 foot.

    Less frequently seen is the setup with Releasable Front boot and rubber (Wiley's) rear or the r-style Reflex rear.

    My point is ask "why" they are on RTP. Is the RTP the goal or is it a consequence of another choice that they made regarding their front binding and advantages they see with that front binding...
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,561 Crazy Baller
    @ToddL correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Andy always used a RTP before there ever was a Reflex (or any other hard-shell release system).
    In gear. Hit It. Thank You!
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,757 Mega Baller
    @Bill22 - yep. I think so, for AM.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • mike_mapplemike_mapple Posts: 41 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @Bill22 yes he has always used and rtp also here is an older video but it shows the view of his foot in the rtp


    https://youtube.com/watch?v=HsEkXJF3Gwc
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,801 Mega Baller
    @mike_mapple thanks for posting that I forgot about it. That is a cool video. I would say Andy's foot bounces around some but I wouldn't say he raises it anywhere.
    Mark Shaffer
  • I had always used a RTP until the end of 2010. I had missed a kick-in or 2 and decided to go with a fairly loose double boot set up. After 2011 and 2012, I reverted back to a RTP because the rear boot seemed to torque my rear foot side hip. There was some pain that I had never had. No more hip pain and just decided to keep kicking in except on very short set up lakes. I can now switch back and forth if necessary.
    Am I a jumper that wants to be a slalom skier? Or a slalom skier that wants to be a jumper?
  • londonskierlondonskier Posts: 190 Baller
    I recommend Powershells. The rear boot has a spring allowing some heel lift. And they are warm and comfy. Also you can pivot the boots if you wish. I had a rear foot injury 4 years ago and powershells were the answer. Nice and snug.
  • ralral Posts: 1,701 Mega Baller
    RTP is good for cost reasons and for dock starting. I would love to be able to use one for these reasons.

    I would say that having flexibility issues in the back ankle while crossing the wakes means that you are either losing position by collapsing into the ski, or that you are getting your hips back and the upper body forward - or both. Not good...
    Rodrigo Andai
  • JHJH Posts: 46 Baller
    Have ski with doubel boot for 30 year now I have old and bad back and have problems
    if the driver go for hard in starts.
    Have considered to go back to RTP have test but I dont like when fothel move side to side
    without support.
    Do any knowes RTP with hel support.




  • JHJH Posts: 46 Baller
    edited December 2015
    This is what I look for many years Link
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    @Web I think what you may be feeling is not the inability to lift your heel but more of the restriction to flex your ankle forward enough. Even soft bindings do restrict ankle flex a little and if it's enough to hinder you from flexing forward and staying balanced, it can be a problem. If you don't have a lot of flexibility in your ankle that can also prevent you from weighting your front foot enough which can cause tail riding and waist breaking...

    You can look up simple ankle flexibility tests. My ankles have pretty good flexibility but one of my ankles has more resistance than the other so it's harder for me to get that range of motion.
  • WebWeb Posts: 78 Baller
    @Waternut Yes, that post was from last winter and since then I have really worked on my range of motion on the ankle, and it has helped a lot. I still use the rear boot and leave the cuff a little loose.
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