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Collegiate skiing

LLUSALLUSA Posts: 240 Crazy Baller
Isn't it about time to stop professional skiers from participating in collegiate skiing, you're one or the other if you've been paid in the past twelve months you don't ski.
LLUSA, Sr Driver, AWSA Board of Directors, Towboat Committee,Lake Owner


  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,228 Crazy Baller
    Lyman, I'd have to agree with you. I guess that also falls in the rule that says " there shall be no differentiation between professional and amateur" or something like that. Hey if you get paid to play football you can't play college ball can you?
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,326 Administrator
    How do you define professional?

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,326 Administrator
    If you could just ban the darn British

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  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,302 Mega Baller
    I've been back and forth here. This isn't a sport that actually constitutes a career like football, basketball, etc...

    I don't like the idea that at the college level that average skiers have to stack up against the greats but I think that's the point of D1 and D2. I think what's really unfair is that 3 schools have all the pros, with 80 or so college teams only 6 offer scholarships and let's face it, they will never lose to the other 74 because if you can get a full ride to ski why go anywhere else? Generally speaking the schoparship teams are just in their own league.

    The other side of that is that they're the only teams that care how they do at nationals. For the Midwest for example if you qualify it means a week and a half off school somewhere warm in October when campus is cold. You're down there skiing for you, if your D2 then it's basically skiing against skiers in your same skill range and it's just glorified regionals which is fun and if your D1 then your fully aware that your just there to ski for you and have fun watching great skiers.

    It is funny how the D1 bar has changed for the podium though, when Iowa qualified in 2011 (D2, bottom seed, took 7th or something, beat seeding) the winning slalom score on Mens was [email protected], the next 4 scores where early 38, deep 35. Women's the top score was early 38 and the 5th place was either early 35 or late 32. Now the winning 2011 scores hardly would make the podium and I'm sure the other events have progressed likewise (exception maybe Zach warden jumping the then record of 192 or something like that, really fun to watch happen)

    I don't love that college kids, amateurs, average joes have to try and stack up against the pros but what I dislike more is the uneven distribution of resources. I know teams that don't have boats and there practice is tournament skiing. I know teams without sites, courses, ramps, and even skis. It's unfortunate that the spectrum ranges from that to full ride scholarships with 40K budgets. I'd rather let the pros ski but see more opportunities for the other teams because I guarantee the south is not bringing new blood into the sport but the other regions are which means they ARE the growth of the sport and as a sport we need to try and support them.
  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,520 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I like having the pro skiers in collegiate skiing. It makes it more exciting. How great is it to ski a tournament and be on the dock with some of the best skiers in the world.
    I watched the NCWSA Nationals webcast and really enjoyed watching skiers miss their openers, plop over jump crashes and running 10.75.
    It looked to me like the top skiers were approachable, cheering all the skiers on and having a great time.
    The pro skiers have so few tournaments to showcase their talents. Do we really want to make it even fewer? It's not like they make any money.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • jcampjcamp Posts: 684 Crazy Baller
    I skied against many pro skiers while I was in college and I have to say that it made the experience for me (a very a run-of-the-mill collegiate skier in a tough conference) even better. I got to know many of the best in the sport and still count a handful of them as friends nearly 20 years after my last collegiate tournament.
  • LovellLovell Posts: 96 Baller
    The NCAA eligibility rules should be followed. Basically once you
  • LovellLovell Posts: 96 Baller
    Did not finish my post
    Once you leave high school and enter higher education, at any level, you have 5 years of which you can compete for 4 of the 5. The only thing that stops the 5 yr clock is a religious mission or military service.
    Additionally you cannot earn money participating in any athletic event of any nature. Also if you transfer you have to sit out a year.
    If these rules applied the character of the competition would be fair and reflect the spirit of college athletics.
    I skied in college and there were pro skiers moving from school to school year after year, which was disrespectful to the kids that were in school for reasons other than skiing, in my opinion
  • ntxntx Posts: 823 Crazy Baller
    Crazy that some are still in school at age 24 and 25. I think that is the bigger problem. I like the five year eligibility starting at no later than age 19. Can't ski past age 23.

  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,302 Mega Baller
    What is the earn vs make money discrepancy? For example if winnings are less than entry fee; I won money but did not make any. I agree that if those are the rules they should be followed, our sport should not be the exception although no one seems to look at club sports that closely. We are a club sport at most colleges.
  • Onside135Onside135 Posts: 401 Crazy Baller
    Let them ski...
  • LovellLovell Posts: 96 Baller
    under NCAA rules, which do not apply to club sports like water skiing, accepting prize money would probably disqualify you from collegiate participation. An analogous sport might be golf. If you played a golf tournament that had a purse while you were in college, you would not be eligible to play for your school. Frankly I think it is rare to find another sport where kids of high school and college age are participating in competition where there is a purse.

    I personally agree with this approach as collegiate sports of which I played two, one sanctioned by the ncaa and water skiing that was a club sport, should serve as a supplement to a student's education and should not simply serve as a publicity tool for moonlighting pros who would otherwise be aged out or are shopping year to year for the best deal.

    Just my opinion .....
  • DaveDDaveD Posts: 668 Crazy Baller
    With winnings like that, maybe Matt can afford a new hat.

    It's a club sport and the biggest draw for most of the participants is having fun. I would think being able to ski with professionals adds to that fun. Especially if I knew there was no way I could compete with the top guys.

    I do agree with @RazorRoss3 in that the schools that offer scholarships should be in a separate division.

  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,302 Mega Baller
    I don't know if any shopping school to school. I think they pick 1 school, where they can get their education and ski and good for them for being good enough to earn a scholarship for it. They get great coaching and hopefully the education lets them keep skiing well into the future.
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,446 Mega Baller
    @razorross3 I know the college team I was on was mostly self funded. We were setup as a club and got few thousand a year from the school. The club dues paid for lake cost and travel. There were a few kids that had boats. They do have a team boat now but I'm not sure how its paid for. It would be nice if more schools stepped up but really there are more with scolarshipped skier than the 80s when I was skiing in college.
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,160 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Pro skiers skiing collegiate, pro skiers skiing age group at nationals-the list goes on and on- our sport is to small to try to alienate the pros. Let them ski collegiate, it raises the bar for everyone and it's amazing to watch!
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
  • brodybrody Posts: 298 Baller
    I had the opportunity to ski against drew Ross at nationals. No chance for me but I get to tell people I competed against him!!
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,302 Mega Baller
    Another angle is that one pro does not equal a good team. Having 5 average skiers wins events over having one rockstar and nothing else. You'll always have the 3 big schools who scholarship 3 pros per event but the rest of the D1 schools have your high level M/W1 skiers like the level 8 in the usawaterski rankings, the D2 teams have everything from that and under. Those top 3 teams will always be top 3, but the rest of the playing field is always changing.
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,172
    If they are good enough to ski at the pro level in college, good for them. Congrats for amazing talent, years of hard work, and the College they attend. We should be talking about how we build more collegiate programs like the little dynasty down in Louisiana, not how we prevent them from competing. And kudos to Alabama for a heck of a weekend as well. That is an amazing tournament to watch, and the enthusiasm all of those students have makes that the best tournament Ive ever attended
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,446 Mega Baller
    Where do you draw the line. How many good college skiers have gotten free skis, gear etc? Its an expensive sport, poor college kids need all the help they can get. You start saying no pros then these kids will be scrutinized for every free handout they take.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,711 Mega Baller
    @DaveD truly LOL about the hat comment! It's a Bennett's Ski School hat that he wears all the time. Lucky hat, I guess.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,228 Crazy Baller
    I guess I see the error in my thinking previously, after reading so many insightful comments.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • keithh2oskierkeithh2oskier Posts: 400 Crazy Baller
    edited October 2015
    Skied collegiate D1 from 04-08 in the West Coast. We had some good skiers on my team (I was 5th in our Mens slalom rotation and could get into 35' so there was a big discrepancy between most of the other teams who were struggling to make a pass. We also has some open level skiers in our region and then of course skiing nationals we got to ski against the powerhouse schools with actual "pros". Should they be allowed to ski? HELL YES. All of the "pro" skiers were just as friendly as everyone else and when it came down to watching them, everyone on the shore was amazed at watching them skiing. Yeh without them, my team would have gone from 5th or 6th place at nationals to probably 5th or 6th place at nationals (they still would have -38/-39' AM skiers) so the chances of making a big impact in overall placements might not change a bit.

    But I think the most important part to take away is the "pros" were rooting along with their teammates no matter if they are running -39 or 26 long line - which is what collegiate skiing is all about - Team Pride. They were always super supportive and really wanted everyone to have fun and were partying next to you on Saturday night. In my opinion, having them only grows the sport, making friendships, and if even a small percentage of that group after college can find the means to waterski (life's expensive, especially when your in your 20s and starting a family, house, etc.), then its a WIN.

  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 1,046 Crazy Baller
    NCWSA has the same rule as NCAA on changing schools - you must sit out 1 year. I've seen it happen a few times in the past 5 years in the south. Personally, I think it is a silly rule for NCWSA. Who cares if a few kids a year head off to college and have a bad experience and want to change schools. Its not like the big money sports of the NCAA.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
  • LovellLovell Posts: 96 Baller
    I'm not totally in tune with the college scene these days, but back in the nineties I recall a couple of the better pros who were rumored not to be college material, save for their skiing ability, ski for three different schools, over a couple of years with virtually no explanation. In our eyes coming from a non scholarship team, we figured he just got a better deal at each new school, was there to ski only and had almost no shot of graduating or even going to class. That hired gun implication was not well received. Hopefully, that has fallen by the wayside.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,326 Administrator
    @Lovell those rumors always exist in college sports. I seriously doubt those rumors had much merit.

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