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Edge Changing Dynamics

The guy who trains me says one should "keep the ski on edge after the wakes for an instant before changing it" in order to avoid the ski from being pulled straight into the bouy. He says the idea is for one to cross an imaginary line between the three bouys at each side of the course and then to edge change preparing for the upcoming bouy...
Now a friend I havent seen in a loong time saw me the other day do a practice set and wouldnt stop saying one should edge change right after the wakes to avoid slack.
WHO SHOULD I LISTEN TO?
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Comments

  • WishWish Posts: 7,316 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2015
    Principals of GUT suggest I get all my speed before centerline and change edge sooner then later to avoid any separation off the second wake and out to the ball. So your second friend is the one I would listen to. But you must generate that speed before CL. It works well... GUT and Denali make 32 off a whole lot easier then it used to be.



    ...and no, a FT would not make it easier.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 286 Solid Baller
    For me at least it depends upon the boat speed. The slower the speed, the longer you wait before changing edges. The 36 mph skiers that I have watched change edges during the wake crossing if not sooner. Slower speeds change progressively later. My two cents worth.
  • aupatkingaupatking Posts: 1,058 Mega Baller
    @Wish your ski looks weird ;)
    Wish
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,249 Mega Baller
    Not sure of you coach/friend's "reasons", but the best skiers change edges basically at centerline, regardless of boat speed
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    Wish
  • nicolas_bermudeznicolas_bermudez Posts: 12 Baller
    thank you all. will give it a try!
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,456 Mega Baller
    edited December 2015
    Theoretically pulling long could make you narrow. But is all assuming you are doing everything else properly. Establishing good angle out of the turn. Good stack etc. Read the GUT thread. Good video here from Seth Stisher too. I had coaching from several respected coaches over the last few years, never been told that. Had the opportunity to ski with Mapple a few years ago and he stress to me to do all of the work between the ball and first wake.

    santangeloGaryWilkinson
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,001 Crazy Baller
    It will also depend on your level. What line length you're skiing. If you are a 15 to 22 off skier, You will be pulling well past centerline. Yes, if you're an open skier, you might still be changing edge between the wakes at these line lengths, but if not, chances are you will not have the angle,or pull by then to be wide/up on the boat as you need to be. Post some video to get a much better/more tailored response to your question.
    ....and if the open skier screwed up the last bouy....he's pulling long too!
    gregy
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,640 Mega Baller
    It depends on your ability. What @Wish said makes a lot of sense but you need to generate speed to change edges early. Most skiers working in 15 and 22 off don't generate enough speed and need to hold their edge longer or else they won't get out to the ball.

    Some video or more background on your ability would help.
    Mark Shaffer
    Bill22Than_Bogan
  • WishWish Posts: 7,316 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2015
    @Chef23 yes but even a 15 offer should strive to generate speed before CL and edge change sooner then later. It can be done. It all starts with a great start. Plus at that line length, you do not have to wait for the boat to advance as much or wait long to get back to the work zone...you're already close to it.

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,001 Crazy Baller
    Yes, it works great for a guy that's been Open for 20 years.
    Drago
  • WishWish Posts: 7,316 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2015
    Yes yes... But the point is that It can be done. And it is something to shoot for rather then have the mindset that pulling longer past the second wake is a have to do thing when it's not. Sure things are different at 15 vs 32 and shorter but the general principals are the same. I would not teach someone to load longer past second wake.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • nicolas_bermudeznicolas_bermudez Posts: 12 Baller
    Thank you all a lot, I would love to give you a video buuut im changing skis right now, so I would expect the issue to be affected by that, maybe a couple sets of practice and then I'll show you guys a video. I'm new to the forum too so im still getting myself around.
    p.d. my easy pases are at 28 off, but thats on my previous ski, quite old goode.
    lpskier
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,195 Mega Baller
    Why didn't Seth throw the fist?
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,976 Mega Baller
    @nicolas_bermudez - listen to skiers that are better than you
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    bassfooter
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,223 Crazy Baller
    @lpskier I thought you only do the fist pump if you missed something in the pass.... :smile:
    Bill22
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,195 Mega Baller
    @Zman There are those that like to try and fool the judges!
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • nicolas_bermudeznicolas_bermudez Posts: 12 Baller
    edited January 2016
    Here is a video I just found of a couple of months ago, I was recovering from a shoulder injury so dont kill me, that is with at 28 Off @58kmph, hope that gives you an idea
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 1,001 Crazy Baller
    Nicolas, the edge change will happen naturally as @adam was saying...to get more efficient, there are a few things that i see in the video. The good news is when you get your arms in the right position, you look great! The "other" news, is that your arms are going in and out , and moving away from your body.
    I'd start with the gate; get your weight more evenly distributed between the feet, and turn in from the ball of your front foot. You currently are "falling" back a bit, which makes you pull the handle in and up with your arms. Keep the arms pretty straight and down by your hips. Don't let the handle get away from your hips until you need the extra length as you are approaching the bouy.
    You're solid on the ski, and I predict you gaining a few passes this year easy. It's just a few things, and you'll be way more confident- good luck!
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