The New BallOfBindings? Or BallOfHardShells?

HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator
edited January 2016 in Skis Fins Bindings
Suddenly this forum seems like BallOfBindings more than BallOfSpray. There are currently a number of threads about custom hardshells. The thread @adamhcaldwell started about boot performance is extremely interesting. I love this stuff.

As administrator and moderator of this forum I have to be the boring guy who constantly suggests caution. Since I have read a number of posts about customizing Reflex shells I am compelled to remind everyone that when you modify the any part of the the lower boot you are changing how the release works. The boot itself is part of the release spring.

If you understand that there is risk and you seek out sage advice I believe a personalized shell may be way better and get you more balls. On the other hand if you think you can just hacksaw your boot without any other adjustments please renew your health insurance and video your experimental rides.

If you really want the best possible custom stuff PLEASE go see a top coach or pro skier. I have heard 3rd hand some things KLP has said about hard shell bindings and I would love to have him hack my setup.

Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

Tagged:
Pat MMattP

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator
    As an example of how small a thing can make things go wrong....

    a number of years ago I got a new thicker liner for a friend of mine. Since the new liner was slightly thicker than the old one it deformed the boot a little when he buckled it. The boot actually became shorter from front to back.

    We never thought to do a release check because it was JUST a new liner. With the old liner his setting as safe but light.

    He pre-released at the wakes going to one ball on his first pass and broke ribs. That was 10 years ago and I think he is still sort of mad at me about it.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 688 Solid Baller
    I wish water ski binding had a forward pressure springs like snow ski bindings. right now on a reflex the plastic boot is the forward pressure spring. the original reflex heel Silverdeo has a forward pressure spring under the heel. but reflex takes that part out of the system for two reasons stand height and weight.
    rab
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator
    @Deanoski "Whatchu Talkin' Bout, Willis?"

    You mean "silvretta"? Spring under heel?

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 848 Mega Baller
    edited January 2016
    You're right @Horton... we need more beer and bikini threads to distract us from this binding tomfoolery.
    Patience is the key to Joy.
    Horton
  • OmlandOmland Posts: 49 Baller
    @Horton did you move completely to a hard shell setup or do you still use the radar bindings? I ask because my last ski purchase and binding purchase was driven by this site. As I consider a new setup I am thinking about hard shells and curious if you made the switch or even if you feel safe in hard shells you prefer the radar bindings for some reason.
  • adamhcaldwelladamhcaldwell Posts: 222 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @Horton - Thanks for putting this up. I was very reluctant to bring up the topic on here specifically for that reason.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator
    edited January 2016
    @Omland
    I rode Reflex with the R Style rear last spring. I like it a lot. I made the switch because I needed to review the Reflex boots. I did not really finish that review because of a bicep tendon injury. I will start 2016 on Reflex

    If my 2016 review stuff from Radar includes new Vapor boots I will easily switch back.

    Both systems are pretty safe IF the skiers pays attention to release settings.



    If you are getting a new ski I recommend that you do not change you ski and bindingsee at the same time

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • jimskijimski Posts: 154 Baller
    After 3 ankle injuries I have decided to move to a hard shell releasable binding system and after several months of reading reviews I have decided to go with the reflex system. With all the modifications that I have been reading about it leaves me wondering how easy it will be to get used to there system or will it work properly for me without Being modified ?
    Very confused
  • OmlandOmland Posts: 49 Baller
    Thanks @Horton, I look forward to the review. Also hope you get your hands on a Denali, would love that review.

    @jimski I have the same concern. I'm not really into tweaking gear. I set my fin as close as I can to factory and leave it. I like my vapor boots because I know all I have to do is not over crank the laces but I'm curious about the performance gains one might get w/ a hard shell.
    jimskiHortonsgregg
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,393 Mega Baller
    @jimski and @omland. Late this past season I went from D3 T-factor double to Reflex Blacktop then Supershell reflex both using R-style rear. I was skiing better within a few sets on the Blacktop, but they were a little on the small size and hurting my big toe. I went to the Supershell front and it took a while, I'm using Intuition aqua liner and an insole, also moved the limiting strap on the cuff down one hole. That's the only deviation from stock I've made. I was about to through in the towel on the Supershells but I stuck with them and happy I did. I've gone out the front once on each. They released with no ankle pain.
    jimski
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,828 Administrator
    @jimski Yea I can see how you would get that impression. I think the folks posting about modifying their Reflex gear do not reflect the majority of skiers who use the system. It is not complicated and for most skiers it is plug and play. I will say I think you should be somewhat mechanically inclined to set up and maintain the systems. You do need to pay attention to any mechanical release binding.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

    Than_Boganmmosley899
  • jimskijimski Posts: 154 Baller
    Thanks@ Horton I'm no stranger to modifying things may be not to the extent some of the ballers are. If it works don't mess with it I would say. Anyway I just ordered the reflex double boot system this morning (after several months of debating) and am very excited to try them out
  • HipsupHipsup Posts: 50 Baller
    @horton whilst on the subject, what did you think of the OB4 system that you tested some time ago?
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 414 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @Mark_Matis gave this setup a try today, seems promising...

    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    Than_Boganjipster43
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,393 Mega Baller
    @mmosley899 is that a different plate under the front binding. Looks wider, G10?

    I tried the Radar HRT and I would have to do some custom foot bed work to use it. The instep area is U-shaped - like it has an arch support on both sides. I only took 2 sets and my foot hurt for nearly a week afterwards. To get it to work I'd have to flatten out that area for the outside of my foot. It would be much more comfortable for me if it were just flat in the instep area.
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 414 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @gregy I only skied one set on it today, so just trying to get used to not having a full hard shell back boot. The foot bed was of concern, but I believe once it is broken in it will work for me. Tried a rtp, but could not make that change.

    The boot plate is a G10 prototype I am working on, more versatile attachment setup. More information coming soon.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    Than_Bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,652 Mega Baller
    edited May 2016
    LIKE IT! Very glad to see the R&D continues. I also like how your new tagline acronyms to MOBS!!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 688 Solid Baller
    also no heel lift!! Looks better Mike!! should also improve the ski flex
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 414 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @Deanoski Yes the MOB System plate flexes better and rebounds better, and has a lower profile.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    chris_logan
  • skialexskialex Posts: 591 Solid Baller
    @mmosley899 the prototype in the picture looks really interesting. I think a great binding product system could come out of it
    mmosley899
  • dthatedthate Posts: 126 Baller
    @mmosley899 any updates on this system? I am in need of new bindings, this looks very cool
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 414 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @dthate I should have systems available for sale later in June or at the BoS tournament July2 at Whitestone. You can check the website for details as we get closer, www.mobsystemrelease.com ...note that you can use whichever boot you want or you are now using on the system.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    Than_BoganIronR1
  • dthatedthate Posts: 126 Baller
    Thanks @mmosley899, I am looking forward to it
  • fox197fox197 Posts: 95 Baller
    @mmosley899 will your plates be Exo compatable
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 414 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @fox197 the EXO boots would require a slightly different boot plate, which I can make for you. The release mounting plate does fit the insert pattern for the EXO system.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    fox197
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