2016 Rules Change - Ramp Color

lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
Anyone know the reasoning behind the necessity to write in the rules that ramps must be red-orange? just curious.
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Comments

  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    Safety, visibility maybe?
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,557 Administrator
    @lottawatta what is the actual text of the new rule?

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  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    "red-orange" was added. Everything else stayed the same. I was just curious as to what or who drove this. I have been over several different color surfaces, and I will take a white, blue, green, or any other color surface over a red surface with no wax or wax full of goose schnit.
    The only real reason I have an interest in this is because I special ordered my surface blue. I like to be different. My blue surface was good enough for Jr. U.S. Opens and World Disabled championships with nothing but positive reviews and several records.


  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    @Mark_Matis - I should have wrote "litigation fears or insurance claims/cost fears". That's what I was eluding to by "safety, visibility". All just speculation on my part. No insider knowledge.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    I sent in inquiry to my midwest rules committee reps. I was just curious if any ballers knew the reason or not. Seems to me, a red surface is no more safe than another color that is contrasting to the sides and the water. IWWF rules suggest a red-orange color, but allow for any color, including waxed wood's natural color.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,557 Administrator
    As an ex jumper I have to say I think anything but red ramps are scary. You need a lot of contracts and something to focus on

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  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 621 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Red/Orange makes jumpers angry. Angry jumpers jump farther. Any questions?
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  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    edited February 2016
    At the 2008 Jr. U. S. Open, as skiers arrived to the site, they walked down the path to take a look at the jump. To their horror, it was blue! On practice day, the first jumper went out to take a set. Several other jumpers were at the waters edge as the skier coasted back in after three solid jumps. "There is nothing wrong with THAT jump" was the first comment spoken. I think the performances spoke for themselves. Ask Sledgehammer or Worden what they thought of that scary blue jump. There is a video on youtube of Zach's record in very adverse wind conditions.
    Where did the need to be exclusionary come from? Was there a specific crash, a specific occurrence on a non-red jump? Did a boat driver drive into it because it was white instead of red? I am not sure why the rules committee thought it was necessary to make red-orange a requirement vs. a recommendation like it has always been, but whatever. It isn't like I need another reason not to host any more tournaments.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,621 Mega Baller
    I don't know the first thing about jump, but standardization does bring some value. I want all my pregates to be green and all my skier buoys to be orange ish.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    HortonThomasAlive
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,826 Mega Baller
    Maybe Scot has excess inventory of red wax.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    Than_BoganMS
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 621 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Jumpers really want to be course skiers so they want the jump to resemble the little red/orange balls?
    2016 Radar Alloy Vapor
    Zman
  • EdbrazilEdbrazil Posts: 1,288 Historical Baller
    For the 1972 Group 1 Championships (now called Pan Am Championships), held in
    Montreal, CAN, on a site that was later reconfigured to become the canal for Olympic
    Rowing, etc. in 1976. The ramp surface was WHITE. There is a photo of Ricky McCormick
    jumping wearing sunglasses. (And a cap with the bill turned backward).

    At our Ultra Pond tournaments during the mid- and late-1970's, our ramp was coated
    with a yellow polyurethane, and there were no complaints about the color. During that
    era, there were a variety of ramp colors used. The wooden surface ramps with wax
    sure looked dark and nasty, when it got late in the season.

    Interesting, that as of the 2015 Rules, an X is allowed on the top left corner. The ramp(s)
    at Grew Lake had/have that, and there was some concern about it being a variation from
    the Rules, before it was specifically allowed.

    Note that the MasterCraft and then Bemman surfaces were/are red, and a lot of jumpers
    have become used to that color, that has almost become a standard before any Rule.

    Back On The Tour, there was an exception granted, and their ramp surface could have
    about anything on it. Such as a Michelob Dry logo. At that time, the jumpers were
    adamant that there needed to be a white line across the ramp at the waterline, particularly
    at sites where the water was clear. We stretched a Rules interpretation vs. out-of-water
    markings a bit to do that.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,912 Mega Baller
    The rationale was that the IWWF rule book states "red-orange" and the AWSA book didn't include a color. So the basis was to bring the two rule books in line. It was briefly discussed that there wasn't many (if any) ramps that weren't red-orange already so the impact was felt to be minimal. If memory serves me correctly I think it was approved without discussion at the board meeting.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    IWWF 13.02 l: It is recommended that all jump surfaces (fiberglass) be of a red-orange colour. Wax surfaces on wood will remain their natural colour.

    IWWF Doesn't require a red-orange color......and allows for wax over wood. Bringing the two in line would be to recommend a red-orange color. There used to be a handful of aqua or white surface in your old stomping grounds of OH, IN, MI @klindy. Not sure how many are still around, but there are some.
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 621 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Seems like that could even eliminate sights from holding sanctioned events. NOT what we need to be doing if the idea is to grow water sports, especially 3 event.
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  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,912 Mega Baller
    @lottawatta you're correct on the exact language in the IWWF rule book. The specific comment/rationale in the rules committee report is - "Rationale: Realized that the color of the ramp was not in the rule book currently and have put the color back. Red-orange color, consistent with IWWF wording. TC OK also". I'd also agree that there were some white (and even yellow if I recall) surfaces in the Midwest. I have no idea whether they still are in tournament use.

    Does anyone know if there are any ramps which are not red-orange (if fiberglass) or if there are any waxed wood surfaces in tournament use?

    If so, and they plan on having a tournament, I would suspect it would a good case for an AWSA rules exception request. Whether it's granted or not is up to the committee. I do know that preventing ANY site from holding a sanctioned tournament was not the intention in any way.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 621 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I didn't feel it was intentional at all @klindy . Just making a statement for the board to consider. Definitely something that should be brought up if a site is potentially eliminated from hosting. Just looking out for the sport(s). Not offended in any way.
    2016 Radar Alloy Vapor
  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    edited February 2016
    I received a response from my rules committee rep. It appears to be an unintentional consequence of trying to align with the iwwf rules.
  • NandoNando Posts: 340 Baller
    Edbrazil, you must remember the '87 St. Paul tour stop where Sammy refused to jump on our blue jump. I was your local flunky and was a little shocked when I returned from the scuba shop to find you painting it. A couple of people weren't too pleased, but once it was painted and waxed, what could we say- it was Sammy...
  • unksskisunksskis Posts: 263 Baller
    Ramps are hard enough to come by, no need for more restrictions.
  • mwfillmoremwfillmore Posts: 14 Baller
    I happened join century club on that Blue Ramp at lake lottawatta... It is still my most favorite ramp. We need rules, we just don't need more of it. Especially if it excludes an awesome 3 event site.
    Than_BoganAdamCord
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    @lottawatta I think you can still do tournaments just get a rule exception approved
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,152 Mega Baller
    I would not worry about color as much as allowable surface deviation... Now that's a hot topic in the jump world!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    klindy
  • lottawattalottawatta Posts: 117 Baller
    The rules committee was very responsive and assured me I need only apply for a rules exception should I want to host a tournament again. Now if Sammy wanted to come jump at my lake, I would have it painted red in no time!!!
    Horton
  • NandoNando Posts: 340 Baller
    Wow- painted to match the water to halfway up the curtain?!? Is that cut as late as it appears?
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,155 Crazy Baller
    from that camera angle it looks impossible for him to make that jump!
    Mick04
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 796 Crazy Baller
    It's like Boise State's football field...it should be outlawed!
    Jody_SealNando
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