At the request of
@Horton, I am starting this as a new thread. This was originally posted in the V-Type R thread
here.
The purpose of this post isn't to ruffle any feathers, although I guess it could...
I know this is straightforward to many folks on this forum, but one thing I hear over and over when speaking with customers or reading between the lines here on BOS is that there are still many folks out there who rely on the holes of their binding plate to determine front boot position. Either they think the center hole on the plate must be the factory position, or they think that since their last ski worked well at a particular boot position, their new ski will act the same.
This is not a good way to set up your ski. If this you, please take a minute and measure your boot position with a tape measure to ensure you are at least close to "factory". Boot position is easily the most important setting on a slalom ski!
Similarly, we at HO, along with many other manufacturers are simply not able to take calipers to the fin of every ski we ship. It's just not practical or efficient for the volume of slalom skis we produce. Instead, we use a jig to quickly position the fin and tighten everything down. The jig is set based on a fin that was actually set up with a caliper. This gets the ski "pretty close", but certainly not exactly "Factory". Now, I know some brands may claim to set their skis up with calipers, and that's cool. Also, depending on who you buy your skis from, many high end pro shops actually reset skis to manufacturer published numbers. That's even better! But I guess what I'm really trying to express is that "factory settings" means different things to different people. To some, "factory" means you haven't touched the fin since you purchased the ski. If you were to actually measure a fin set up with a jig at the factory, you could find it to be off by as much as 15-20/1000 from published settings. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, these might be your magic numbers!
With the V-Type R and so many other high end skis out there, published fin numbers are often derived from pro skiers who are running 39' or 41' off. Let's face it; there just aren't many of us who move on a ski like Nate or Will or Rossi. Factory settings may not work for the way you ride a ski. Frequently, people ask me or Dave for new or "better" settings, but in order to make a recommendation, it is very helpful to know where we are starting from. So... I urge anyone who cares about this to invest a little time and effort to getting to know their ski a little better.
Sam Avaiusini - Operations Manager,
HO Sports Company, Snoqualmie, WA
Comments
At least today we have factory insert locations to go by. Back in the "good old days" ski blanks were drilled by a shop. I purchased a new high-end ski in the early 90's at a shop near my college in Texas. I found the ski, which I had skied a lot before (an older model) frustrating from the get-go. The next summer I then skied on a one-year-newer model that my brother had purchased and found it skied like a dream. The word on fin settings and moving boots was gaining a lot of traction in magazines and through that education I decided that perhaps the problem was that my boots were too far aft. In fact, the shop I had purchased my ski from had put the boots so far back that when I took my ski to a reputable shop back home in Seattle they had to drill new holes! After that fix the ski worked a ton better.
All this to say that I agree - Moving boots and making sure your ski is set up properly is HUGE!
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For me, PRE-BOS, I would have never thought to adjust a fin/wing. I would have thought the ski got to me the way the factory wanted it. So, who am I to adjust?
Now, after BOS, I still understand very little about fin/wing settings but do understand that settings can make a huge difference. In fact, I ordered wing gauges and calipers just today. However, until my knowledge level increases (and my very basic slalom course skills are pretty solid) I will only be verifying fin settings and maybe adjusting back to factory recommended ones if adjustments are off. At my level, the fin/wing is very likely the least of my worries provided settings are pretty close! Factory settings are a great place for me to start. I have much more basic things to work on first!
1996 Malibu Echelon
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I often wish set up was not so critical to performance but it is. You either need to know how to set things up yourself or get help from someone that knows. So while I think the factories do a good job of getting things close or even correct, it doesn't matter to me because I will be setting everything anyway.
Goode / Centurion Boats
Factory settings= How the ski is delivered.
Factory specifications= How the manufactur state the ski to be ideally set up.
Customer expectation= How big the delta is. A more advanced expensive ski should have a smaller delta.
I view them as a loose approximation that should work okay for a majority of skiers. So long as the ski is fairly close to factory specs, it will be good enough to promote good skiing habits for novices. Advanced skiers, on the other hand, should regard factory specs as a decent general starting point from which to fine-tune their own personalized setups.
And ALL skiers should be able to measure their own equipment. A skier without a caliper is like a cyclist without a tire pump. Not knowing how your ski is setup is as isn't much different than riding around on flat tires.
Alpine ski boots have normally the middle marked and skis as well.
Product improvement maybe?
I don't put any faith in "the middle hole" but it sure is nice when the stock setting hits the middle hole. Just makes that adjustment simple.
For me, stock fin numbers are where the ski functions well for most, and gives me a base to start. I don't do much fin adjustment, unless the thing is unskiable, which I have found only once before with "stock numbers".
For me, "factory" means the ball park you should start in. After that, you're on your own. Unfortunately, there is only a handful of people that really know what they are doing with a fin, and I'm probably not one of them. Fortunately, I have three extremely knowledgable ski partners to keep me in line. For the average skier, getting the fin in the right world and then adjusting the bindings is a surer and safer way to go. If you really want your ski set up right, book some sets with a reputable pro and ask him or her to help. Then leave the fin alone and adjust your bindings.
Adjusting bindings but not fin? I guess that is easier but i am sure the results are FAR inferior
Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray
Connelly • D3 • DBSkis • Goode • Hobe Lake • HO Syndicate • MasterCraft
Masterline • O'Brien • Performance Ski and Surf • Reflex • Radar • Stokes
Goode / Centurion Boats
Goode / Centurion Boats
Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray
Connelly • D3 • DBSkis • Goode • Hobe Lake • HO Syndicate • MasterCraft
Masterline • O'Brien • Performance Ski and Surf • Reflex • Radar • Stokes
Goode / Centurion Boats