Current Promo Boat Rules

jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,373 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
edited August 2016 in Rules/Politics/Issues
There is a shortage of promo boats across the country. For those of us who host tournaments, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find boats to pull our events. Should AWSA change the rule or should the boat manufacturers address with AWSA to resolve for 2017?

Current Promo Boat Rules 91 votes

AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
59%
HortonScarletArrowskidawgthagerMarcomlangekstateskierWeapparawlyChef23RichardDoaneBruce_ButterfieldKelvinAlvin_Neff9400wcalrobertsAndreMattPdancin4jdarwin 54 votes
Boat manufacturers should work with AWSA to address the issue for 2017 or agree to delete the 2 year rule
26%
RogerscotchipmandislandskiepBoneHeadLeonLsunperchPat Mjstaab3BbrandauMSZmanwski1831MurrskirodbToddFejjJibboGolfguywtrskior 24 votes
Other (explain)
14%
Chuck_DickeyacmxToddLMrs_MSJody_Sealunksskisskier2788IlivetoskiMoskier3evMillerTime38brettmainerHboroughsstorm34 13 votes
Joe Darwin
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Comments

  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,046 Mega Baller
    edited August 2016
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    I think this an example of crony capitalism at its worst. The boat manufactures are forced to pay a large fee to have each boat configuration tested and approved for tournament use. The last number I heard was $10k per configuration, but that was several years ago and word of mouth so I won't swear by it.

    The boat companies need some ROI to justify the test cost, so they negotiate with usaws to require current year boats at tournaments.

    This benefits usaws and the boat companies, but at the expense of the members.

    Time for a change.
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    jdarwinskidawgsantangeloMrs_MS
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 971 Crazy Baller
    Other (explain)
    @jdarwin the big 3 don't sell many ski boats, they are less than 5% of their sales. They would just stop making the boats before they spent a lot of time and money negotiating how to fix this. So if we all stopped buying them they would be "crying croc tears", we would just wouldn't be able to buy anymore ski boats.
    MSwtrskior
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,578 Mega Baller
    Possible unintended consequences - Mfg have no reason to sponsor tournaments or skiers if they are not selling their guaranteed 50? ish promo boats per year. Be interesting to see what the price point winds up being on the (3?) Malibu options for 2017
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 1,817 Crazy Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    I think for most "events" they should relax the rules substantially on boats. This will hopefully make events cheaper to run, allow more of the ski sites to use boats that they own to pull the event.

    If the 2 year rule goes - I think the incentive would return to really develop stargazer and get lots of boats out there.

    When you are at a private site and their newest boat can't pull events... Somethings broke.

    Consider college teams - they need to have access to essentially current year boats? That's crazy.
    RazorRoss3
  • skier2788skier2788 Posts: 643 Crazy Baller
    Other (explain)
    Why not change the rule to 2 years or current model. I.E. Nautique current model is 200 so any 200 can pull a tournament. Once Nautique comes out with a new model then only 2 year old or less 200's can pull.
    Travis Torley
    unksskisdancin4
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,373 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    @Ilivetoski - I understand your point but you must realize when those sales occur - during the offseason (Sept-Mar) - it provides needed cash flow during the winter months. So, it may only be 5% of sales but they are important sales nonetheless. And, I don't believe the ski boat market would evaporate any more than it already has.
    Joe Darwin
    MattP
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,170 Mega Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    The collegiate piece is especially hard because the benefit to the boat owner is even less. I'd ski anything with ZO in a heartbeat.
    MattPdancin
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    Other (explain)
    Ok!! Let's look at this closer and understand a few thing's. First and for most LOC's are not filling out towboat request forms. So manufacturer's do not know when and where to send boats. Most all tournaments are sanctioned by Jan, if LOC's would push the towboat request button when they do their on line sanction promo coordinators would have a list to go by. Now!! our own sanction organization let us down in the past by having a glitch in the system and not forwarding all this information. We have been told by Bob at headquarters this has been resolved...

    An older boat can be utilized when a current model is unavailable in the two year policy. It just requires a rule exemption by contacting the region tow boat committee rep. This applies to Class -C tournaments also.

    Now here is some sad news's !! Most promo boats of all manufacture from here on out will not send promo boat's to tournament's with less than 20 entry's. Get used to it as some of these guy's are driving 4-5 hours to support a 10 entry tournament. Unless of course the towboat resides on the lake that is holding the 10 entry event.


    Many of these issues were discussed at the recent towboat meeting, minutes from meeting should be available soon.

    Jody
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    RazorRoss3klindyRazorskier1Broussard
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 1,817 Crazy Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    @RazorRoss3 - that's even the tournament side of it - consider all the training access for these teams. And also with collegiate there is the whole Fall/Spring issue in the northern states, some teams will get a boat for july-september but have not time effective way to have a boat in april/may (even if their water got warm enough).

    Lots of these teams could own a ski boat for what they pay a year to lease a boat for a few months.
    MattPHShaw
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,170 Mega Baller
    edited August 2016
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    @BraceMaker, I skied collegiate in the Midwest, trust me I know. There are countless teams without boats, or practice locations because they are cost prohibitive. Even having access to something made in the last 10 years is a significant challenge when the purchasing party is 10 or 12 kids who are paying for college and not exactly good credit risks.

    But that is a topic of a different conversation. The point here is that it can be very challenging to get tournament boats to all of the events especially on over booked weekends or in states with only 2 or 3 total promo boats of any make.
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,373 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited August 2016
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    @Jody_Seal - I DO fill out the request form when I sanction my tournaments each January. Problem is, there are NO PROMO BOATS to be had. There is one Nautique 4 hours away. One Malibu 4 hours away and no MC's. The boat manufacturers have made it so cost prohibitive to be in the program, everyone is dropping out. Fortunately, we "may" have a 2016 Malibu for our 6 rounds of record in Sept. Coupled with a 14 Centurion (exception granted) and my 2007 SN 196 (exception granted). Problem is, the promo guys don't get much for bringing their boats. I put them up, feed them and provide free entry. I do more for the promo person than the damn boat company does!! I guess next year I'll just pull all my records with my 2007 196 and wait for the firestorm to hit when we submit a national record for approval!!

    Edit: @Jody_Seal - If it's so easy to get an exception, then why does the rule exist at all?
    Joe Darwin
    MSBruce_ButterfieldRazorRoss3
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,361 Mega Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    I had to get out of a promo program in the early 90s, boat prices jumped up around then and the economy was wasn't the best. Think 92 was my last boat. I received mostly resistance from my local dealer. Maybe extend the requirement out to 3 or 4 years w/o exception.

    There were several people that had boats on our college team we didn't have a team boat.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,412 Mega Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    high cost of boats kills the promo program. Way back when a promo guy could get a boat at a price that they might be able to recover on resale. At current prices, that isn't possible. I am not blaming anyone for boat pricing, just saying that if you buy a promo for $60k, you probably are going to lose money whether you sell it in one, two, or even three years.

    I own a 2015 MC Prostar. If a friend was running a tournament and was out of options, I'd be willing to tow it a reasonable distance (under 2 hours) to help out once a summer, but I don't want to be towing it every other weekend (of course, I'm not a promo boat owner either). The number and availability of promo boats is declining, and will continue to decline. Perhaps we could get rid of the 2 year rule and find a way to broaden the network of boats if you could find people who were willing to share their personal boat once/year.
    Jim Ross
    jdarwinRazorRoss3
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,912 Mega Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    As a former promo owner (2010-2016), I (like @Chuck_Dickey ) have supported quite a number of tournaments on my own dime for the past 2 seasons due to lack of support from my local dealer. Luckily I was still getting the factory's share of support. But as of next week my 2014 is sold, and unless the financial support returns to cover the expenses of bringing a boat to an event, I'm done.
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • rodltg2rodltg2 Posts: 1,051 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2016
    Manufactures should drastically lower the price of ski boats and spread the loss over the wakeboard / surf boat line ! Make those guys pay for our fun Lol
    RichardDoane
  • brettmainerbrettmainer Posts: 193 Crazy Baller
    Other (explain)
    +1 on @skier2788 comment. Almost voted for Option 1, then thought about whether it was a good idea to allow 1990s boats w ZO conversions to pull events.

    There is a problem. In NorCal, I think we have it better than most, but still, the only traveling promo boats are Nautiques and Centurions. The Malibu and MC promo boats never leave their home lakes. Consequently, I put 12hrs on my 200 this weekend pulling a 2 day slalom and trick tournament. 100% of the trickers used the Nautique.

    The overall promo boat problem is making it progressively harder on those few of us who remain, which discourages us from continuing, which imcreases the problem. I empathize with @Chuck_Dickey. I broke even on one boat in the last 10 years and lost money on all of the rest.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,578 Mega Baller
    @rodtdg2 - or maybe just go back to making the tiny little no frills 20 year old closed bow boat that most on here seem to prefer. Hard to sell a 60-70K boat to a bunch of guys satisfied with an old nautique.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    dvskiershyskierHboroughs
  • acmxacmx Posts: 205 Baller
    Other (explain)
    It's the high prices on the new boats. How many people can realistically afford a mid $60,000 dollar boat? Seems like this sport is crumbling down around us sometimes.
    jdarwin
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,578 Mega Baller
    edited August 2016
    @acmx - they are not having any trouble selling wake boats that start around 70-80K and go way up from there.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • acmxacmx Posts: 205 Baller
    Other (explain)
    @oldjeep your missing the point.
    MattP
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    Other (explain)
    This sucks but consider this...
    Average Cost of New Car Cars
    1980 $7,200.00
    1990 $16,950.00
    2008 $27,958.00
    2013 $31,352.00

    IIRC, in the 80's new ski boats were about $20k new? So about 2.7 times the car average above.
    So, based upon that factor,
    1990: $45k?
    2008: $75k?
    2013: $85k?
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,578 Mega Baller
    What was the point?
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 1,860 Mega Baller
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    @ToddL, I don't think boats in the 80s were $20,000. A 1993 Prostar 190 might have been $20,000. The list price on a 2000 Prostar 205 was $35,000.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • ntxntx Posts: 758 Crazy Baller
    @ToddL Paid 12,500 for 1980 limited editon MasterCraft Power slot. Top of the line boat at the time. Wish I still had that one. Sold it in 1998 for 8500
    ToddLthager
  • acmxacmx Posts: 205 Baller
    Other (explain)
    @oldjeep I don't see the relationship between the prices of Wakeboard boats and the state of the Promo program. I'm sure Porsche sells everything they build too....
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,373 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited August 2016
    AWSA should eliminate the 2 year rule and allow any boat with current speed control to pull events (similar to IWWF)
    My 1996 SN promo was $19000 including trailer. Average price of new car in 1996: $16300. 2016 - $33580. about 2x. Using that logic, a promo SN should be about $40,000. Promo price is closer to $70k.
    Joe Darwin
    ToddLWishdancin
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