It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

- 16.7K All Categories
- 13.6K Mostly Slalom
- 6.1K Other Stuff
- 4K Skis Fins Bindings
- 227 Ski Tests
- 1.7K Technique & Theory
- 1.1K Videos & Photos
- 361 Breaking News
- 21 Advanced Topics
- 293 3 Event
- 117 Jump
- 169 Trick
- 3.2K Peripheral
- 353 Rules/Politics/Issues
- 1.7K Boat Talk
- 1K Stuff For Sale
- 49 Site Info & Instructions
- 4 FAQ
- 18 Classic Threads
- 662 Off Topic

12" White Stickers ______________

BallOfSpray $5 Donation ______________

BallOfSpray $10 Donation

PurdueSkier
Posts: **130** Baller

Can someone please help me understand the reasoning behind the graduating skier rule for scoring? This year I transitioned from M2 to M3 and my max speed dropped to 34 mph. My current ranking includes both 2016 tournaments (36 mph) and 2017 tournaments (34 mph). My average didn't match what I thought it should, until I read further and found that all M2 scores (even though listed at full value) are actually reduced by 6 when calculating the M3 average.

According the FAQ section on the ranking list:

Graduating Skiers: For the Rolling 12 Month timeframe, those skiers who have changed Age Divisions during that period will be shown in their new Age Division. In most instances, performances recorded in the previous age division will be equivalent and will contribute to the skier's rankings in their new age division. Where the maximum slalom boat speed in the new Age Division is lower than the old one, those scores will be adjusted in accordance with AWSA rule 10.06(c) to be compatible with the new Age Division.

According to Rule 10.06c

A skier may elect to start at a speed higher than his division maximum speed, up to his respective Open Division maximum speed, and may not return to his division maximum speed on subsequent passes. Any passes skied at that higher speed shall receive credit for buoys as though they were being run at his division maximum speed.

I don't understand the logic here. I thought the reason for all starting speeds to be consistent is that a score of 94 is a score of 94 regardless of what division it was scored in.

According the FAQ section on the ranking list:

Graduating Skiers: For the Rolling 12 Month timeframe, those skiers who have changed Age Divisions during that period will be shown in their new Age Division. In most instances, performances recorded in the previous age division will be equivalent and will contribute to the skier's rankings in their new age division. Where the maximum slalom boat speed in the new Age Division is lower than the old one, those scores will be adjusted in accordance with AWSA rule 10.06(c) to be compatible with the new Age Division.

According to Rule 10.06c

A skier may elect to start at a speed higher than his division maximum speed, up to his respective Open Division maximum speed, and may not return to his division maximum speed on subsequent passes. Any passes skied at that higher speed shall receive credit for buoys as though they were being run at his division maximum speed.

I don't understand the logic here. I thought the reason for all starting speeds to be consistent is that a score of 94 is a score of 94 regardless of what division it was scored in.

0

## Comments

2,701Mega Baller2,701Mega Baller2,701Mega Baller23,532AdministratorI like round numbers so....

100 balls = 4 @ 38 at 34 mph

106 balls = 4 @ 38 at 36 mph

When you are at 36 any line length is worth an additional 6 balls.

Your number score may have gone down but your balls and some line length is kept. Since your future scores should go up at a lower speed I do not see what you could be unhappy about (except a little confusion).

Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis / Denali / Eden Ski Lake / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

130BallerHere are my current scores

94 @ 34 mph = 4 @ 35 off

93 @ 36 mph = 3 @ 32 off

92 @ 34 mph = 2 @ 35 off

Current average SHOULD be 93 (94+93+92/3)

However, what rule 10.06c says is that my M2 score of 93 (3@32 off @ 36 mph) is actually carried over to M3 as an 87 (3@32 off @ 34 mph). My average is a 91 (94+87+92/3).

23,532AdministratorSupport BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis / Denali / Eden Ski Lake / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

130Baller23,532AdministratorSupport BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis / Denali / Eden Ski Lake / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

841Crazy Baller93=3@28 / 36 mph

Makes sense--Most people are at or near 1 pass better at one slower speed.

130Ballermy current score of 93 from a run of 3 @32/36 mph is now an 87. I am not talking about running 3 @32/34 mph in a new tournament, I am talking about existing scores.

To put it another way, the day after Nationals, my top 3 score average went down by 6 balls without me skiing in any tournaments.

1,900Crazy Baller2,701Mega BallerMax SpeedBuoy Count for 6 at Max at LLBuoy Count Adjustment to normalize to 34MPHDivisions in this situation46KPH (28MPH)

48

18

W9, W10

49KPH (30MPH)

54

12

B1, G1, M8, M9, M10, M11, W7, W8

52KPH (32MPH)

60

6

G2, W5, W6, M7

55KPH (34MPH)

66

0

B2, G3, M3, M4, M5, M6, MM, W1, W2, W3, W4, OW

58KPH (36MPH)

72

-6

B3, M1, M2, OM

5,620Mega BallerWhat

isclear is that 36 is harder than 34, so nobody can question getting credit as if you were at 34.Naturally, I have invented a formula that I think maps scores between 36 and 34 fairly accurately. And you just happen to be at the point where the mapping is roughly a full 6 buoys (basically my formula claims that 34/-35 and 36/-32 are of equal difficulty). However, that doesn't apply in all ranges, so the only "safe" thing the rule could do is give you credit for the balls you actually skied rather than trying to translate them to a different speed.

This would probably be a much hotter issue if not for the fact that you (or anyone in your spot) will have plenty of good 34 scores before long.

130Baller1,287Historical Ballerpreferred 36. More recently, Jamie Beauchesne turned 35, and could have skied in M3

or MM, but didn't like 34.

For me, I picked up 2 shortline passes going to 34 and never looked back. 36 was scary

for me. However, I did have some quirky skis that were out to slam you.

2,701Mega BallerSo, a Class C Junior skier who starts at say 28 MPH -22 and runs the opener would have 48 buoys last year, but has 60 buoys this year (48 + 6 for 15 off + 6 more for 22 off).

The total buoy counts for those skiers is all messed up when compared to prior years and when mixed with E/L/R events, which do not recognize the line until after running max speed.

Not sure if the rankings address this currently.

841Crazy Baller2,701Mega Baller130Baller23,532AdministratorSupport BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis / Denali / Eden Ski Lake / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

5,620Mega Ballernothappening. 3 @ -32/36 is counted as 3 @ -32/34 for these particular purposes.23,532AdministratorLooking at his scores one more event and he will not care. It is not a perfect system but I am not sure how else you would do it. In terms of skill 3 @ 32 36mph is roughly the same as 3 @ 35 34mph

Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Connelly / DBSkis / Denali / Eden Ski Lake / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

841Crazy BallerFrom 35 to around 46 yrs, old, I used to ski 36 at E and above tourneys,even regionals, to get or keep my open rating (didn't matter what you did in Cs, many pro tours were class C, and open rating rules have been all over the place), never got credit for skiing 1.8 mph faster.

41BallerSo far both tournaments I've skied since moving up I've run 22 and I feel like I'll be knocking down some 28's next year so it's kind of moot point there. But my overall scores were lowered enough that I moved out of level 8. Where as with scores at 34-15 I would have been in level 8. I don't have any 3 event scores since moving up but I should be able to get my average back up. Especially if I can run a 28 in a tourney sometime.

5,620Mega BallerBut for those elite folks running -39 at 36, it doesn't necessarily seem to translate to running -41 at 34, so at that end the raw ZBS buoys count probably would overrate their true capability at 34.

Not much to be done, I'm afraid. Even I can't recommend the use of my formula, because it's purely heuristical, and each skier will handle the transition differently. The only "safe" thing is to recognize that 36 is harder than 34, so you get the same-rope-length buoys carried over. Then to find out what a skier can actually do at 34, measure them skiing at 34!