Concept for Regional and national competition approach submitted to the AWSA board.

Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
edited November 2016 in Rules/Politics/Issues
"Please Keep in mind this is a loose concept and has many holes to be filled in"


There are many in this sport that believe that the nationals in it's current configuration is not doing the sport any justice. This includes skiers , sponsors / industry and many in AWSA leadership.
The site's that have more then 2 lakes available are and have become hesitant to produce a national championship.
Too long an event to run on a two lake site, too long of an event to run on a three or four lake site.


A few things to ponder: Over 60% of the Nationally qualified skier's did not attend the national championships. Over 75% of slalom only qualified skiers did not attend nationals.


Nearly 70% of AWSA members are single event slalom skiers.


Time frame between regionals and nationals is to close for family's and skiers to consider taking time off for two full weeks of tournament. In some regions throw in a State tournament two weeks in front of regionals.


Over the recent years there has been many complaint's pertaining to the quality and level of driving and officialdom at the national championships.


Slalom skiers (1eventers) are looking for more then a one and done at A nationals.



Two National Championships..
The Premises is to allow for a traditional 3 event and a slalom only nationals.
The door is wide open at this time on format and time frame. Team skiing, multi-round and many of the potential hurdles this concept would encumber.
Three Event or traditional nationals would consist of slalom trick and jump and oriented towards the overall of the sport.
The Slalom or super nat's would encompass the slalom only competitor with the availability of multiple rounds and targeting the slalom only near 70% of AWSA membership.


This concept makes a lot of sense in a lot of way's: 1. Allows for 2 smaller events that can be run on a 2 lake site in 4 day's or less (long weekend).
2. Allows for single event higher capability Slalom only drivers and judges to be more involved at the Slalom Super nat's.
3. Opens up the door for a farther separated time frame between regional 3ev Nat's and slalom Super nat's.


A few other items that need to be put into place for this two national concept to work and help stem the membership loss: 1. Allow Masters divisions and open divisions the option of not participating at regionals. this would also boost the Masters division's as these are the skiers most complaining about attending regionals
2. Allow men's and women's 8 and above to not have to attend regionals.
3. Add another 10% on the qualifying ranking's number across the board.


There was a time when nearly 600 competitors entered the southern regionals and nearly a 1000 entered the nationals! That was another time and qualifications needed to be in place that ensured competency at the national level. Membership was big and the pool of skiers was large.
Today's tournament ski world is a mess with non inclusion ideology, time and cost. let's open up some doors and put the emphasis back on the handle end of the rope.

Concept for Regional and national competition approach submitted to the AWSA board. 74 votes

Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
89%
Hortonskidawgthagereleeskiski6jonesMarcodislandblockRichardDoanePSMBoneHeadKelvinMrJonesRpc29Than_BoganLeonLMattPrandy menyjmvana1[Deleted User] 66 votes
No this concept is not a good direction.
10%
jimbrakelottawattaunksskisjwroblewjcampBroussardBRYskitractor 8 votes
Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


«1

Comments

  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I guess I can vote on my own poll!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    eleeski
  • Rpc29Rpc29 Posts: 154 Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Pretty simply, anything that is a change from status quo deserves to be explored.
    Ryan Christopher
    Than_Boganski6jonesjcamp
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,819 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Frankly, this a brilliant idea. I'd hope they would be different weekends so I can attend both.

    I take it one event trickers and jumpers would attend the three event nationals but theoretically only ski one event? Having just said that, it occurs to me that this might help encourage people to three event. Or, if you can come to three event nationals and only ski trick or jump, could you only slalom at three event nationals?

    The downside is a slalom skiing parent with three event kids will probably not like the idea. No one solution will ever make everyone happy.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,311 Crazy Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Makes sense to me
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,620 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Presently not my favorite idea, but certain worthy of further exploration.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Pat M
  • aupatkingaupatking Posts: 769 Crazy Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I really don't qualify, but simply because I agree with @Rpc29 I'm putting my vote in as well.
    As Jody mentioned, membership is really low. There's some great ideas out there. Thank you for throwing this one out there
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,115 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Me and my son both qualified and didn't go, this proposal would have changed both of our minds
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 1,854 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I qualified for Regionals this year for the first time. If there were some multi-round option there, I might have gone. The travel was a big issue, too, as it was in Kansas this year. Plus, I was surprised to qualify, as my age division previously required a higher level to qualify than other age divisions and that was changed this year.

    In the other thread about changing regional boundaries, I would think a Great Lakes region of WI, MI, OH, IL, IN would have put the Regionals within consideration. Even MN is a bit of a haul to make. 300 mile drive or so is very doable. 500+ is not really appealing.

    If I qualify for Nationals, a slalom-only, multi-round option would make it much more appealing to commit to attending.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    Horton
  • sunperchsunperch Posts: 196 Solid Baller
    @Jody_Seal As a one event slalom skier, I think it is a great idea! The reservations that I have are because of the kids. I think the 2 Nationals idea would split the kid's divisions up too much. Splitting up the kids would take away some of the fun - a good portion of the fun for the kids is seeing their Nationals friends from around the country. Most of the kids I know are 3 event skiers, so they would attend that Nationals (except mine who are slalom only). Most of the parents I know are single event skiers, who would want to attend the Slalom Nationals.
    Than_Boganjcampeleeski
  • HockdogHockdog Posts: 107 Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    As was posted, a change from the status quo would be a good thing.
    Horton
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 203 Baller
    If you have a slalom, trick, jump Nationals and a separate slalom Nationals, who is the National champion slalom skier?
    Broussardwtrskiorsunperchjcamp
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,165 Mega Baller
    I like the idea.

    Concerns
    Could this cause 3 event to lose more participants?
    Could a multi round slalom nationals just turn into a rankings list? For that event is it better to do 1 round, who came to play that day?

    Would a possible adjustment be a 1 round nationals combined with a multi round event that was the kickoff to the new season immediately after it? So the last event of this season and first event of next would be the same weekend? It would be like waterski New Years and could provide a true who came to play Nats with a fun multi round event afterward.
    MattPSkiRV6ballsski6jones
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,912 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    @Jody_Seal thank you for caring enough to rock the boat
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    eleeski
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 1,854 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I am with @RazorRoss3. No multiple rounds to decide the champion, but have an additional event after the "one and done" round.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    6balls
  • jcampjcamp Posts: 608 Crazy Baller
    No this concept is not a good direction.
    "There was a time when nearly 600 competitors entered the southern regionals and nearly a 1000 entered the nationals!"

    Any reform ideas are already starting off on the wrong foot if they are trying to get back to the participating levels of the good old days. We had those numbers back then because of demographics - the Baby Boomers were booming - not because of anything the sport was doing right or wrong. You can't look at today's numbers and necessarily come to the conclusion that what we are doing today is broken.

    dislandeleeskiHortondbutcherThan_Bogan
  • jwroblewjwroblew Posts: 143 Baller
    No this concept is not a good direction.
    great, i have to go to two nationals instead of one...
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    We need to start with the problem statement. Seems your trying to solve too many problems at once. Is the problem low attendance? If the most important thing is getting more people to go, splitting it in half doesn't seem like the best option.
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    nleuth
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,532 Administrator
    edited November 2016
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    @jcamp I agree that we're not going to get back to Peak levels. But if you just compare the decline of usawaterski membership and the rise and fall of slalom ski sales you would see two completely different to graphs. I believe a much smaller percentage of the skiing world is interested in our tournaments than used to be. The skiing world is smaller but has not shrunk nearly as much as the competitive skiing world.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,532 Administrator
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    @sunperch you have to break some eggs to make an omelet. If this concept doesn't work for you what do you suggest?

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    edited November 2016
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I posted this over on another related thread.
    Slalom single event members of AWSA make up over 60% of total membership (probably closer to 70%) .
    At the 2016 US Nationals ( And by the way probably the best Nat's I have attended ever)
    there were just shy of 600 entry's. Nearly Half of those entry's were Slalom single event skier's.
    Of the 2016 national qualified overall or multiple event skiers nearly or over 60% attended the Nationals.
    Of the 2016 National qualified Single event slalom skiers less then 30% attended the national event.
    These numbers are a little loose but with out going into my e-mail and pulling them up they are close.

    @jcamp
    If we were not a split multi level organization and AWSA was a stand alone Sanctioning body I would agree. However because AWSA is a sport group of the USAWS we have become almost half (or more) of their yearly income. If all of our proceeds and income went directly back into the AWSA then there would not be any issues.
    When USAWS takes the lion share of AWSA income and redistributes to boost the other sport disciplines and run the offices on a shoestring with high paid senior staff then our sport discipline starts to break down with out membership growth.

    The goals of the multi national championship concept is to increase participation and AWSA membership at all levels.
    To Increase the time frame between the regional and national events that have plagued low entry numbers due to the cost and from taking time off from work to participate.
    To allow for two shorter long weekend events rather then one 5-7 day event.
    To allow a format where the 70 plus percent of AWSA membership that are slalom skiers get more then a one and done experience.

    "If you have a slalom, trick, jump Nationals and a separate slalom Nationals, who is the National champion slalom skier?"
    Currently we crown two national champions anyway with a event champion and a rankings list champion. In slalom it was proposed that a combination rankings list and national event placement dictate the national champion. How that would be implemented again is a loose end that would require definition and acceptance.


    "great, i have to go to two nationals instead of one..."
    The multi-national format will not fit into everyone's needs and acceptance. the goal is to open up more opportunity for all qualified. Some may find the format a better selection as the concept suggests the second slalom super nat's to be around labor day to take advantage of the three day weekend. like it or not we make far too many rules and policy's that encourage the few rather then the many in our sport. More then likely there would be many that would attend both event's. But we will probably never know as to many in our leadership are already against this type of ideology and forward business thinking.

    Again contact your state rep's. Contact your regional director's let them know your position on any and all items or issues you deem important or better yet come get involved and attend these meetings.
    At this writing we still do not have a site for a national championship and your counsel and AWSA leaders need your input.





    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    BoneHeadklindyjedgell
  • sunperchsunperch Posts: 196 Solid Baller
    edited November 2016
    @Jody_Seal You are providing great information, thanks for the statistics! I would love to ski in a Super Nationals with slalom only if I was only thinking of myself. (No, I am not calling anyone selfish).

    @Horton We have attended 5 of the last 6 Nationals and have had a blast at all of them. As mentioned in other threads, we make it into a family vacation. Idaho was one of the most fun, yet! My concerns stem from how to keep it fun for the kids (the future of our sport) and thus keeping them interested in the sport. What is the point if the kids are not having fun???? How about a compromise, have a Nationals with kids being able to 3 event, then slalom for adults only. Maybe that would keep the families from having to divide and to keep the friends together for the kids. I feel like the event itself is not the problem, the problem is having the LOC pay out way too much to USAWS and the crazy requirements like paying for hotels for all officials, only allowing 3 event drivers, etc... I just asked my 14 y.o daughter what she thought about the idea. Her response was that we would need to go to both Nationals then, the slalom only for her to ski and the 3 event "so I could see all of my friends. I want to see my friends all ski."
    eleeski
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,532 Administrator
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    @sunperch your experience with your kids is what i remember from my childhood. Unfortunately i think that in 2016 you are in the minority. If the sport was healthy today it would be different.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 645 Crazy Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    I would be fine with two different Nats as described but when I read @sunperch comments the thought of the youngest participants of our sport finding it less desirable for any reason gives me pause. They are saying the social aspect of the sport is most important to them. I think Collegiate skiers have the same experience. That's already why I go to tournaments, although it wasn't why I started skiing tournaments.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    How about 3 round slalom, 1 round trick, 1 round jump. OA uses first round slalom. Single event judges/drivers for slalom rounds 2 & 3. LOC/Sponsors benefit from higher participation.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,910 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    @elr wouldn't that make the tournament like 2+ times longer. It's already nearly a week long on two lakes.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
    skierjpHorton
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 452 Solid Baller
    It's 5 days at Okeeheelee with 4 lakes and 1 designated practice lake!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,532 Administrator
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    This concept is wide open for possible tweaks. I it is logical (to me) that slalom skiers who are parents of 3 event skiers would go to the 3 event Nationals and compete for the slalom title at the 3 event Nationals. In other words 1 or 2 or 3 event skiers would be welcome at the 3 event - 1 round Nationals. At the same time 1 event slalom skiers could chose to go to a multi round slalom only Nationals. You choose and hopefully more skiers get the event they want.

    The only downside is that there are two tournaments and the meaning of "National Champion" is diluted a bit.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

    Jody_Seal
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    In the concept there would be nothing stopping a skier from attending both events if they wished and met the qualification standard. Currently we already have two National champions. A event champion and a rankings champion.
    Again the concept was submitted to the AWSA board solely as just that a concept and to address complaints and issues pertaining to the Championship series. Even if it is implemented there will still be naysayers and discontentment. Geographic's will still come into play no mater what direction is taken. However I am some what encouraged after looking at the poll that the concept does have merit on BOS.
    Again the door is wide open to how, what and when. Putting anything more into it than suggestion or input is grasping on to the unknown..
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    @klindy -- hopefully it will make the tournament twice as long with many more participants with more to do. Hopefully, everyone in the family can slalom a lot so travel cost/ride gets more reasonable. A two lake site may not work anymore. But the economics for the LOC and sponsors would in theory get better. We need to increase participation or change the financial arrangement so that the hosts are not working for $.50/hour while their non-skiing neighbors are getting angry at them because they can't use the lake they are paying for.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    Yes this concept has merrit and should be explored.
    Thanks everyone that took the time to read this concept and voted. of the ones that voted looks like at least on BOS this concept has merit. AWSA knows it needs and has to make direction changes.

    One of the first things and in many others opinions is for our sport to get an identity and maintain it. to be classified as a towed watersport as USAWS and some in industry does not do our sport any good. We are equated with air chair, show skiing , barefoot and many others. Competitive tournament waterskiing or 3 event is our sport the others are pastimes with far different dynamics.

    Again thanks for the votes and input, I know our fearless leader is reading them and soaking it all in.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


«1
Sign In or Register to comment.

Not sure how to deal with a long link?