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releaseable binding vs Radar Vapor binding

JayproJaypro Posts: 177 Baller
So after 2 years of injury, I am considering a releasable binding. I am nothing special, 15' off skier, but I am considering a Reflex binding and staying RTP. Looking for someone of my comparable ability to give some thoughts. Does anyone know if any shops or reflex has a demo type program?
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,318 Administrator
    @Jaypro below is a repost from another thread.

    You can get hurt in any binding. The trick is to understand the pros and cons of any binding. In the last 10 years I have mostly used Radar and Reflex. You can use of either of these systems to be extremely dangerous or extremely safe. The trick is to understand to how they release and make a decision on your risk level.

    My rule with the Radar Vapor (and other similar systems) bindings is that i have to run the top lace loose enough that I can pull the ski off without loosening the lace.


    Here is my Reflex release test.

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  • JayproJaypro Posts: 177 Baller
    excellent point @OB1
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,318 Administrator
    @OB1 I totally disagree. Most ankle injuries do not happen at a time when the skier would ever thing to let go.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • gregygregy Posts: 2,444 Mega Baller
    My ankle have been so much better since I went to a releasable binding. There is maintenance and inspection that needs to be done. I had a fall today were the tail come out and the binding release with no pain at all. Before it would have been a sore ankle for a week or so.
  • JayproJaypro Posts: 177 Baller
    going to hardshell binding, is there an on/off feeling to the binding? Meaning is it difficult to make fine adjustments in the turn?
  • skialexskialex Posts: 714 Crazy Baller
    I don't think on and off feeling is correct, more responsive to skier's input yes.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,318 Administrator
    @Jaypro the difference is not radical. If you're worried about that you might look at the Edge binding. The hard shell for that binding is surprisingly pliable. I'm expecting one of the mail any day and will do a review ASAP.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / Hobe Lake / HO Syndicate / KD Skis  

    MasterCraft / Masterline / MOB / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / Reflex / Radar / Stokes

  • gregygregy Posts: 2,444 Mega Baller
    I went from rubber to Reflex black top then to Supershell. The Black tops was a very easy transition just took a few sets to get used to. The Supershell took a few weeks. I definitely noticed more sensitivity in the turns but after that they have been gold.
  • JayproJaypro Posts: 177 Baller
    Looking forward to your review @Horton. 4 feet of snow here in VT,it's gonna be a while here!!
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,021 Mega Baller
    When transitioning from rubber, the cuff is absolutely key. It can't go too high up on your shin (use a hack saw like many pros do if needed!), and may need to be buckled very loose, at least while you get used to it.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 1,057 Mega Baller
    Modify at your own risk - you may be changing intended release characteristics. Try stock first and understand what your intended modifications will affect.
    Is it time to ski, yet?
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,513 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    I couldn't slalom at all of my first version of hardshells, way too stiff. I ended up cutting them up in various ways to soften them and ended up loving them. The Intuition liners are a large part of the feel and comfort. I skied them for a long time with few releases and few injuries.

    Lisa struggled with the transition from rubber to Radar boots. She ended up moving her boots forward a huge amount, switching to a RTP and now she loves them. Some adjustment of the ski might be needed.

    I switched to a Radar front boot after a couple ankle tweaks. This might have been a bit less stressful on my sore ankles (I run them quite loose with frequent replacement of the bungee laces). I took falls that released by: 1) ripping the binding off the ski (screwed in but no inserts), 2) releasing the liner out of the shell, 3) releasing the foot clear of the liner/boot. Note, I'm using fairly thick (not stock) Intuition liners in my Radars. If you go with Radars, don't overtighten the laces - it ups the injury risk and might hurt performance (if like me, you like a softer boot).

    A lot of the ankle problems I had were related to ski characteristics. Skis that skipped out tended to hurt my ankles. Changing the ski solved the ankle stress issues. While @dchristman is right about grinding the boots changing the release characteristics, make sure you like the way the ski/boot package works for optimal safety.

    Rubber boots scare me. But almost the only time I use rubber boots is to jump - and jumping scares me.

    Eric
  • lakeaustinskierlakeaustinskier Posts: 332 Solid Baller
    @jaypro If you are concerned about the "on/off" feel to the binding you might try the Fluid Motion Evo series. I've been on the FMs for several years mostly because the upper part of the binding isn't as rigid as most hardshells. FMs don't seem to be very popular but they work for me (I'm a 32/35 off skier). Good luck!
    Ted Thomson, Austin Texas, Aquaplex
  • markchilcuttmarkchilcutt Posts: 868 Crazy Baller
    My daughter is running Reflex front with RTP and loves it!
    Ski it if you can!!!!
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,705 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2016
    I haven,t heard a lot about the MOB binding system reading the info, it seemed to be quite a good system but haven,t seen one in use ?

    " Ski It Like You Mean It ! ”

  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,021 Mega Baller
    MOB is new this year. @OB1 is on it, I believe.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,842 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I'd be interested in some review on reflex front RTP as well. I run rubber front RTP currently and love the performance, and I have not had any game changing ankle issues though I think once was a whisker away. What I don't like about rubber is my foot going dead after a number of passes.
    The strada I find too loose and if I snug it like I want it then it's no longer releasable. Any 35/38 skiers running Reflex and RTP?
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,444 Mega Baller
    My ski partner @parkerc2112 uses Reflex front with RTP he gets into 35off. A Wiley's RTP.
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,176 Crazy Baller
    @OB1 Can you elaborate on the different in shells between the Reflex shell and the Goode shell. Since the MOB lets you use any shell what are you using and why?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • dzskidzski Posts: 1 Baller
    I have heard concerns regarding prerelease with ob4 system, does this happen with the newer MOB bindings?
  • ecnoecno Posts: 23 Baller
    I want to switch to a reflex, I think, but I'd be coming from an HO xmax with direct connect. I bought a vapor because I tested one out last year and loved it so I can't put my old bindings on it to help the transition. I haven't skied yet this year because... Well... It's Canada

    My question is, if I went for the reflex now, is it a huge difference that I would be pissed about? In which case I should get a vapor and then later get a reflex. I just don't want to buy the vapor just to replace it or want to replace it part way through the season as that would be a waste.

    Thoughts?
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,513 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    What bindings were on the Radar you liked? Get those.

    Or just get the Reflex. Embrace the change. If you hate the Reflex, get the Vapor binding. Use the Reflex on your trick ski. I guarantee you will trick better on a hardshell. Or a tricker will buy it from you.

    Eric
  • ecnoecno Posts: 23 Baller
    @eleeski I don't trick, only slalom and I hates the bindings that were on the vapor when I tested it so that's a none starter haha.

    My plan was to put the new reflexes on my old ski (v-type) to at least get used to them but I'm selling it, hence the dilemma.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,548 Mega Baller
    @ecno for me the Reflex shift was a pretty big one. The first set I couldn't even turn the ski on one side I think it was my on-side. It took 2-3 sets before I could run a pass and 6 or so before I could get down the rope to my practice average. That was coming from a Radar Strada so it might be a similar transition from the HO Xmax.

    For a complicated list of reasons I went back to the Radar boot and had no trouble switching back.
    Mark Shaffer
  • bigskieridahobigskieridaho Posts: 840 Crazy Baller
    @ecno I ski with a Vapor boot and love it. Me coming from a big background in snow skiing like the way the liner feels like a ski boot. Been wanting to try a Reflex considering it is the same concept. The Vapor boot is awesome tho.
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 551 Crazy Baller
    Go with a Vapor on MOB, thats the setup I'm looking toward when I round up the money.....
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,513 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    @ecno Bindings might be more important than skis. Changing both is a huge project. But both the Radar and the Reflex are excellent products which should improve your skiing. It is possible to optimize both. Be willing to move things around - a lot! Jump in and enjoy the learning process.

    And take up tricking. It's fun.

    Eric
  • TWBTWB Posts: 162 Baller
    @ecno I Skied a Reflex for 2 years and liked it. It was a difficult transition from rubber bindings, and my first hand full of sets were exactly like @Chef23's. I never felt like my offside was as consistent with it though. I attributed that to the narrow front of the boot not allowing me to get my inside toe planted and bring my weight forward. What ultimately made me switch to a Vapor binding was a prerelease that hurt like *%@#. I tested it many times like Andy and Horton before that occurred.

    I was worried about the lack of stability when I switched to the Vapor because of its hybrid design (I tried a rubber binding once or twice during my time on the Reflex and felt like I was using a sock for a binding). Switching back to a rubber binding was more difficult than the switch to a hardshell. I found the lateral control and rigidity of the Vapor was equal to that of the Reflex, and felt immediately comfortable.
    Tom Burnham
  • ecnoecno Posts: 23 Baller
    Wow this is all great info! Thanks! I'm really thinking of the vapor. If I get a releasable binding it will be a reflex because everyone in the club I ski at runs the reflex and I'lI be able to get all the help I need
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