The new Level 10 Rule is

HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
edited February 1 in Rules/Politics/Issues

The new Level 10 Rule is 46 votes

A good idea
71%
Hortonski6jonesMarcoscotchipmandislandRichardDoanePSMelrBoneHeadKelvinLeonLMattPdave2balllpskierraynskiinxsJody_Sealunksskissunperchskier2788 33 votes
A bad idea
4%
Triplettnate93 2 votes
No idea now this rule works & don't really care
23%
skidawganimalChef23MrJonesThan_BoganGarnToddFALPJrgt2003riplashJack_Haase 11 votes

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Comments

  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 327 Crazy Baller
    edited February 1
    A good idea
    Seems to be more fair to me, I'm for it.
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,902 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    If I understand it to be, for example, M3 skier ranking places the skier in L10 he must ski in MM not M3 then I think it a great thing.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    Has anyone said what the percentages are for Level 10?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    A good idea
    @disland top 3% with no fewer than 5 that qualify.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy Will this change the percentages for all the other levels? btw why are the percentages different for men 7,8,9?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy can someone confirm what the rules are for overall? Is the rumor correct that MM skiers ski in their division but only for overall so they essencialy get a 4th or 5th ride at Nationals?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,620 Mega Baller
    No idea now this rule works & don't really care
    I have some idea how it works, but it just doesn't concern me one way or the other.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,880 Moderator
    edited February 1
    A good idea
    I always thought that level 9 was an odd place to stop the ranking list.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    A good idea
    @disland The proposal was to allow for a skier who was in MM (lets say for slalom) and M4 for trick and jump to ski a second time (for overall score only - no placement) in their age division. I do not know if that passed or not. That would allow that M4 skier to ski for M4 overall.

    I also do not know if the details are worked out completely as to where that skier is to be seeded (first? wherever their score places them? special group after the event?).

    @disland I'm not sure what you mean by "why are the percentages different for M7,8,9?
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 945 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy @disland Dave is referring to the cutoff percentiles for the various levels. A larger percentage of the M7, 8 & 9 skiers are level 8 compared to M3, 4, 5 & 6, for example.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
    elr
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,902 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy does that mean if there are fewer than five that are in the top 3% the top five will be L10? And with the tie-in to MM does this only apply M3-6? Does it apply to MW?
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @Kelvin Yes, thank you
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    A good idea
    @disland @Kelvin Again the proposal was the level 8 ranking is set to be 70% for all divisions except for those where there are at least 5 skiers in an elite division. For those divisions where there are at least 5 skiers in MM/MW/OM/OW the top 3% of the skiers will be set to level 10. Level 8 would then be adjusted to be the 70% threshold minus the number of level 10 skiers.

    Level 9 is set to be the top 7% of skiers in the pool of skiers used to set the MM/MW/OM/OW rankings.

    If the total number of skiers in any age group is less than 35, the level 8 percentile would be lowered to the 40th percentile. The goal is to have enough skiers to make the competition (as currently set up) reasonable at the Nationals.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy Mens 7 has over 100 skiers but level 8 starts at 58%. Please explain?


    Percentiles and COA Scores For M7 Slalom
    Level 9 ( 93-100 ) Percentiles COA Score: 105.50
    Level 8 ( 58-92 ) Percentiles COA Score: 82.17
    Level 7 ( 18-57 ) Percentiles COA Score: 63.00
    Level 6 ( 18-17 ) Percentiles COA Score: 47.70
    Level 5 ( 8-17 ) Percentiles COA Score: 47.70
    Level 4 ( 0-7 ) Percentiles COA Score: 1.80
    Level 3 ( 0--1 ) Percentiles All Others
    Rankings last recalculated at 4:06:05 AM on 2/1/2017.
    * Indicates Penalty; # Indicates Rule 1.13; See FAQ/Tips.
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    Intheday
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    A good idea
    @disland Looking at the ranking list level percentiles presented to the board, M7S is set to 70% where in 2016 it was set to 58%. So I suspect the changes (assuming they were approved) have not ben entered into the database as of now.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy regarding these percentages. who makes these decisions and how often are the changed? what is the process? where is that documented? Seems arbitrary.
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    ski6jones
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 239 Solid Baller
    edited February 2
    A good idea
    i like the idea, it should add more competition for some divisions, mainly M3-5 and W2-3.

    Than_Bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,620 Mega Baller
    No idea now this rule works & don't really care
    @MillerTime38 Good points, but wrong thread. You're talking about ZBS, right?
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    A good idea
    @MillerTime38


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  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    A good idea
    Soooo I was thinking that this thing is STUPID but was keeping that to myself until I understood it better. I just spoke to @skimom and yes it all makes sense.

    The deal is - the top 1/2 of the Level 9 skiers are now Level 10 and can not bounce back to their age group. It will negatively impact a handful of skiers who wish to ski in their age group at Nationals. It stops Nate Smith from skiing M2 if he wanted .... but why would he?

    FYI - I do totally disagree with the idea of Open or MM at Regionals and Nationals but if we have to have those divisions then the L10 rule is a step forward.

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    Than_Bogan
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    A good idea
    @disland The protocol is set by the Skiers Qualification Committee and was changed somewhat from previous years to it was presented this year to the BOD. Previously the percentiles were set to attempt to have a minimum number of skiers at the Nationals. The lower levels cascaded down from Level 8.

    Look here on page 108
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    A good idea
    @klindy Thanks
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • TriplettTriplett Posts: 205 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    A bad idea
    @Than_Bogan This is why I said this is not a good idea. L9 should have taken care of this. When you become open rated you shouldn't have the choice to compete in your age division, you are now able to ski in pro events, you should have to compete against your peers in amateur events. This would apply to MM as well. You have done your work, here is your reward.

    Disclaimer: I have used the ability to choose my age division while in Level 9. I was never the best by a pass or even top seed.
    Brent Triplett - Michigan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,620 Mega Baller
    No idea now this rule works & don't really care
    @Triplett Regarding your disclaimer: It's always valid to play the game by the current rules. Advocating for rules changes does not require sub-optimal choices by pretending that your suggested rule is already in place.

    I get into this all the time with people on other topics, including broader policy issues. (Don't worry, I won't give a specific example.) So many times I hear "you can just do that on your own" and sometimes I feel like it's my life's mission to explain to people how that doesn't make sense. If someone unilaterally enforces a rule on themselves, then they are simply at an unfair disadvantage. That has nothing to do with advocating rules changes to make the "game" better for everyone.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • jcampjcamp Posts: 609 Crazy Baller
    @Horton Playing out your last post a little bit using Men's 3 as an example. The top half of level nine would be pulled out of Men's 3 and into MM at Regionals and Nationals, right? So in the Eastern Region two of our top skiers are now out of my (Men's 3) division at Regionals? I'm not sure how I feel about that, but if that's the case, it just got a bit easier to podium at Regionals ... Am I on track here?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    edited February 3
    A good idea
    @jcamp top half of level 9 is an approximation. There will actually be a cut off score. Something like 2 @ 41. Yes a BIG score. (if I got this wrong then blame @skimom because she explained it to me)

    For me the problem is that it just got easier for you to get a medal at Regionals.

    We are an ability based sport or we are not. This is actually a throwback to the 70s when if you skied too well you were forced into open. Skiers for sure dropped the handle to stay out of Open so they could have a chance a winning Nationals. Hopefully the skiers that are good enough to be in Level 10 will want ski with the very best.

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  • jcampjcamp Posts: 609 Crazy Baller
    @Horton: "For me the problem is that it just got easier for you to get a medal at Regionals."

    I agree, even though it may help me.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    edited February 3
    A good idea
    @jcamp I have not won regionals in over 25 years and if I did it again I would be thrilled but I would certainly know I was not the best skier in the age division because that skier is skiing in Masters Men. (Larson or @Dirt or @Milford or...)

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