ZBS for IWWF

dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
Now that we have ZBS is there a path to have this for IWWF, or is this going to be another thing we have to keep track of?

What happens at Nationals when you have some skiers skiing class L and others E?
Dave Island- Princeton Lakes

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    @disland What I think I understand from @skimom is
    • if you do not run a pass at your max "Traditional" speed then your scores is zero (or as if you did not shorten) for IWWF
    • if you are M3-M5 and ski at 36 I have no idea what your IWWF score is
    • if you are M6-M8 and ski at 34 or 36 the rule book states all M3-M5 must buy you a beer
    I believe @JeffSurdej said that it applies to all event Classes. C/E/L/R

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  • JeffSurdejJeffSurdej Posts: 244 USAWS Official
    @Horton Even though this is allowed in Class E/L/R and ZBS will be used to determine placement and awards, when the actual score goes into world IWWF rankings they will upload according to NON-ZBS rules. So yes if you run 30-32-34 and 3 @ 36 in say B3, your IWWf score is just 3 b/c you did not make the max speed. As for M3-5 going 36, thy would not get the extra 6 buoys
    AWSA President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    @JeffSurdej Thanks for clarifying.

    Are we making an effort to get them to align at some point?
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,911 Mega Baller
    IWWF uses age groups defined as "35&up" etc. Some M3/4 skier who wants to ski at 36 should simply 'slide' up divisions to one which has 58k as the max speed. Not sure why the scores won't count.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
    MattP
  • JeffSurdejJeffSurdej Posts: 244 USAWS Official
    @klindy there is no division to slide up above 35 that has a max speed of 58k? @disland this will be a tough sell to IWWF, its b/c of their inability to allow Open skiers to choose their own boat that we have been in half this mess for years. They dont allow it b/c they think its cheating, so all we have done is let the open skiers ski age division, that's not any better, and has caused problems. IWWf should just allow open to choose their own boat.
    AWSA President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    @JeffSurdej Understood, Thank you for your leadership
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,151 Mega Baller
    edited February 2
    @JeffSurdej
    Why should open skiers be able to chose their own boat and not age group skiers?
    After all "their shall be no distinction between amateur and professional"
    So what make's the open skiers the ones that "should" be able to choose? I do not know of to many open skiers that purchase their own boats! Most of us age group skiers do purchase our own boats so why not we who purchase our boats chose what boats we ski with in the so called competition?
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    Bruce_ButterfieldHortonMSJWebSki
  • JeffSurdejJeffSurdej Posts: 244 USAWS Official
    @Jody_Seal I can't argue that theory. Let me re-phrase. IWWF will not allow any divisions to use their own boats not just open. The by-product of this in Open has caused the most grief from a rankings list perspective at least b/c their work around is skiing age divisions whereas age division skiers have no choice and they just have to deal with it.
    AWSA President
  • Chad_ScottChad_Scott Posts: 357 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    With Regards to Open skiers choosing their own boats There are open skiers who have the opportunity to make money at record tournaments should a record be set behind their sponsored boats. That should be reason enough to allow them to ski behind their own boats.

    There is no reason for most of the open skiers to ski in record tournaments other than to make a little extra money. @Jody_Seal I would let you ski behind whatever boat you want at our tournaments. Why do we allow trick skiers to chose their own boat.
    Personally I think it is a benefit to a local record tournament to have the likes of Nate Smith Will Asher Parrish or any other Open rated skiers in attendance. I know having two children who came up skiing having the opportunity to interact personally with the open skiers meant a lot to them as junior in our sport. I have no problems accommodating them even though we say there is no distinction between pros and amateur

    Most sites that host record tournaments want the open skiers at their sites and what site doesn't hope one of them sets a record.

    At the same time why does AWSA allow closed tournaments which prohibit manufacturers from having their boats on site and used in the tournament. Why would we allow a manufacturer to decide for skiers which boats will be used at an AWSA sanctioned event . To me it doesn't seem much different than allowing a skier to chose a boat or allowing a manufacturer to chose for you. If we are not going to accommodate skiers then why do we accommodate manufacturers.

    Short of a manufacture offering a cash prize for an event such as Masters Malibu Open or the big dawg series. All manufacturers should to be allowed and utilized at any tournament event sanctioned by AWSA
    MattPdislandklindyThan_Bogan
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    The sport should be doing everything they can to help Pro's make money or we may end up without them
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    klindyThan_Bogan
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,151 Mega Baller
    @Chad_Scott could not disagree at all with your statements. However! AWSA Had the opportunity to step up and take the line out of the rule book that state's "There shall be no distinction between amateur and professional" So in that statement alone Again why would an open skier have the privilege of skiing behind the boat of their choice and age group not? Take that line out of the rule book and identify a professional status in our sport then by all means bring what ever barge these skiers feel or are contracted to ski behind ! So now come's the contractual obligations many of these "OPEN AMATEUR" skiers have to only ski behind the barges they are by contract obliged to ski behind yet ski site's that hold tournaments are not able to have a contract for exclusivity of a said barge? Kind of hypocritical is it not?
    Also the single boat rule came down from IWWSF not AWSA.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    MattPBruce_Butterfield
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    @Chad_Scott i have a business relationship with Centurion but i promise if i show up at a local tournament and ask to use my boat I'll end up as a jump anchor

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  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,151 Mega Baller
    @Horton you would make a great jump anchor don't sell your self short!!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


    Bruce_Butterfield
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    @Jody_Seal I wouldn't make as good a jump anchor as you would

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  • Chad_ScottChad_Scott Posts: 357 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @Horton you need to get out of California at Lyman's record. Brian wanted and skied behind the carbon pro

    @Jody_Seal at some point we can utilize common sense regardless of what the AWSA defines these skiers as. You along with most tournament organizers know which skiers can benefit from using his/ her own boat. So if a site can get by with a contractual obligation to a manufacturer then a skier should be able to as well. It can't be one way and not the other
    You can now have four rounds I am fine with one boat each round and do away with closed events and skiers choosing boats.

    Short of that if a manufacturer is allowed to dictate at an AWSA sanctioned event (non cash prize) then we should allow skiers under contract to ski their boats
    Jody_Seal
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    edited February 10
    @Chad_Scott I'm not really for or against this concept. My point is that this only really matters to the elite 5% of the sport. Most of the membership / the base of a membership / the skiers that pay retail for slalom skis are unlikely to ever attend a tournament where they will be offered to ski behind their own boat or brand of boat.

    If the rules allow sponsored athletes to use their own brand of boat I really don't think most of us care. I'm a level 8 skier so I ski behind whatever the chief boat driver assigns to my division.

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  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,053 Crazy Baller
    @horton more like 1% or less
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    I guess if the Open skiers were able to use their preferred boat model, it is likely that they have access to a personal favorite, specific boat that they would like want to also be present at that Open tournament. Thus, for sites having difficulty getting a variety of approved promos to attend, this might help.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,547 Administrator
    edited February 10
    @ToddL What?

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  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,435 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    If you are over 35 and want a score at 36 mph I thought you could enter IM (international men). Does that score not go into IWWF? I know it would not work for regionals or nationals.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
    MattP
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 1,860 Mega Baller
    @Dirt, you can ski IM over 35 and get a score at 36 mph. It will record in USA Water Ski Open Men's for class C (and above). I believe you need to ski class L or R for it to count for IWWF. I do plan to do one of those as some point to get a IWWF score.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    @Horton, seriously... I recall several comments in the past about certain sites can't get promos to come to their events. I know most of the sites in that situation aren't likely to host open events, let alone R class events. But if they did put on an R and pros were invited and able to bring there boats... Just a thought.

    PS: Thanks for the Panda! Just means I am on track with my 2017 development plan of annoying you sufficiently with my posts.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    HortonJody_Seal
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