How to set your release tension for Reflex, HO Syndicate, or Edge Boot System

HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
edited February 23 in Skis Fins Bindings

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Comments

  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,880 Moderator
    @horton the day you fall off that table better end up in the blooper reel and lets hope the only thing hurt is your pride.
    ski6Horton
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    @MattP I cheated. I am holding a tree branch that you can not see on camera.

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  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 464 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Good video, that's exactly how I do it with Reflex.
    Horton
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    edited February 23
    Important Note
    When you do this for your self you need to kick out quickly and decisively. If you are too cautious or tentative it will actually take more force to release. I think you could actually hurt yourself if you try to do it tentatively.

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  • skialexskialex Posts: 587 Solid Baller
    @Horton Very good instructional video but do you put your mass into play? I can not tell from the video, if you mainly use your feet's force is there a chance to come up with a wrong setting number? Let's say a heavy but not very strong skier may come up with a lower than right number.
    Don't get me wrong, I run my Silvretta in a lot lower number than my alpine ski bindings, but the idea behind tension setting should be pretty much the same, you set the tension according to your mass and skill level.
    Mine is at 5, I used to set it at 6.5 but decided to try to lower the number over the course of time and ended up with 5, it has released when needed and never has a prerelease, I wouldn't feel comfortable to ski in a lower number than 5 but I will try your release test this weekend.
    Thanks,
    Alex,
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 464 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @skialex let me see if I can answer that question for you.

    All that really matters is what amount of load you want to put on your ankle. Regardless of what your mass is, this test will match the release load on your ankle/achilles pretty similarly to how it will be on the water. My ankle is pretty jacked from years of soccer abuse, so I run a lower setting than what would probably be recommended for my weight. But that doesn't matter. I have it set to release when my ankle is loaded as much as I am willing to push it, and no more.
    Triplettskialexchris55lakeaustinskier
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 874 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Exactly how I do it as well.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    @skialex Those skier weight charts scare me. The setting I found in the above video is a much lighter setting than I would have expected from the Reflex charts. If I had used the charts the boot would be basically unreleaseable.

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  • ryno65ryno65 Posts: 18 Baller
    @skialex think of it as choosing skier type 1 release on alpine skis, with lower than average release values where you would move from a 6 to 5 to allow for weak limbs or slower skiing speeds.
    skialex
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    @ryno65 You might have just said something super smart but it is gibberish to me as a non-snow skier. Can you explain?

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  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    @Horton ski binding DIN settings correlate to your height weight and ability level. There are 3 ability levels. The lower your ability the lighter the setting (and lower number) you will have.

    It's concerning you say the reflex chart is too heavy because these alpine binding settings are good for 99% of skiers. Only racers and back country experts set measurably higher than the charts.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    edited February 24
    @wtrskior for my Reflex system the chart always seemed pretty close. In the past I have just trusted the charts and in hindsight I think that is super bad.

    The Edge System is not exactly the same as the Reflex system so I am not shocked the release setting is different. I do not have a chart for Edge but my feeling is that even if the charts are good you should still "trust, but verify".

    If a skier is unwilling to do a release test like I did in the video I simply do not recommend a mechanical release system.

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  • ryno65ryno65 Posts: 18 Baller
    @Horton I prefer to think of it as "style" rather than ability, prevents the ego influencing the selection. My ability is more like type 1, my style is more like type 3, my body is happier with type 2

    TYPE I SKIERS
    Cautious skiing at lighter release/retention settings
    Ski conservatively
    Prefer slower speeds
    Favor lower than average retention/release settings - this corresponds to an increased risk of inadvertent binding release in order to gain increased releasability in a fall
    TYPE I settings apply to entry level skiers uncertain of their classification

    TYPE II SKIERS
    Moderate skiing at average release/retention settings
    Ski moderately
    Prefer a variety of speeds
    Ski on varied terrain including most difficult trails
    TYPE II skiers are those who do not meet all the descriptions of either Type II or III

    TYPE III SKIERS
    Aggressive skiing at higher release/retention settings
    Ski Aggressively
    Normally ski at high speeds
    Prefer steeper and more challenging terrain
    This corresponds to decreased releaseability in a fall in order to gain a decreased risk of inadvertent binding release
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    edited February 24
    @ryno65 interesting stuff. You got me wondering about the differences between the needs of a snow skier and the needs of a water skier in terms of release.

    On water a skier should very rarely be in control and doing something that would be pulling the binding off the ski. In other words you should be able to run a relatively light release setting on a slalom ski without fear of pre-release until you do something stupid. If you think about it, your feet should always be pressing down on the ski and holding your binding in place.

    I'm under the impression this is not nearly as true on snow.

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  • DanEDanE Posts: 782 Crazy Baller
    In snow skiing DIN setting the sole length of the boot is a part of the setting (shorter soles yield a higher setting of the release for the same release force as a longer sole).
    That is probably the #1 reason @Horton feels the need for a different setting on the Edge system vs Reflex as the boots are not identical nor the mating surface between boot and plate either.
    amnesiatjm
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    I think it would be pretty easy to get lost in theory of release. My message to everybody is to test. If you pull a mechanical release binding off the shelf, mount it to your ski and go skiing without testing it - it is your own damn fault if you get hurt.

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  • ryno65ryno65 Posts: 18 Baller
    @Horton think of a comparison of "type/style" like the difference between Nate & Freddie getting the same job done.
    In either case, always better to increase the release value after a slightly early release, than wish you had started lower....& definitely test, test, test before use.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    Here is the official Reflex video.

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    Deanoski
  • parkerc2112parkerc2112 Posts: 86 Baller
    I just sprained my ankle while using reflex(1st time since switch). It did release but I came to the conclusion I had not been tightening the above the ankle clasp tight enough which allowed for heel lift within the boot. Lesson learned
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 433 Baller
    edited September 23
    Snow bindings have some "elasticity" - it does not open immediately: under dangerous force boot travels within binding few millimeters and if force subsides, boot returns to normal position without release. The better binding, the better "elasticity" . That is why good and properly adjusted snow bindings have relatively low range of pre-releases.
    Silvretta does not have any elasticity by it construction, it is like "digital" - yes or no. Small mistake of skier (like heel lift for fraction of second, which may be not even noticed in traditional binding) followed by release. That is why some skiers who I know apply more release tension than is normally needed.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,558 Administrator
    @OldboyII I find the margin of error for settings on the Silvretta to be surprisingly big. If your settings are reasonably firm so it is an effort to get out you will not pre-release.

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    OldboyII
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 433 Baller
    edited September 24
    Yes, it is. I was talking only about mechanical difference. As a matter of fact Silvretta is probably the best option for water ski due to lightness, simplicity and price.
    I did not find on the market ski bindings light enough to be adapted to water sport.

    If somehow Silvretta will be combined with toe release for flat rotation it might be perfect construction.
    Both Silvretta based binders and MOB rely on one release device,which from theoretical point makes release on the other end of the boot a "secondary action", which is very much dependable on other factors such as friction boot/bootbed, type boot sole, plate etc.
    Toe-heel releases should be independent from each other because they are preventing different parts of foot/leg from injury.
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