D3 Leverage / D3 Leverage Black ?

Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,446 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
edited March 1 in Skis Fins Bindings
I have used the D3 Leverage binding like forever, I was gutted when laces at the rear were introduced, I liked the binding that you put your foot in knowing you did not have the variable of, have I got it too tight or too loose, but I stuck with it laces and all.
Here,s my question is the new Leverage Black (no laces) the same as the Standard Leverage, does it give the same lateral support, I ask this because the blurb is slightly different for each binding, the standard leverage mentions, ideal for the competition skier where as the Leverage Black does not.
Is there any difference between the two bindings apart from laces or no laces ? Does the Leverage Black give the same lateral support as the Standard Leverage ?

Anybody got any info to clarify the difference if any ?

"In my mind there is more potential to be released.”

Comments

  • skialexskialex Posts: 551 Solid Baller
    Wiley's makes overlays for both Leverage and Animals, black with no laces since these boots exist. Is it possible that D3 buys overlays from Wiley's now hence the blackout no lace Leverage?
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 826 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    The Leverage Black Out is the next generation. The overlays make the boot less stiff when compared to the gray Leverage boot with laces. I think the new boot is MUCH better. The old Leverage was a great boot AFTER you broke it in, which took forever. But even then I thought it was too stiff and preferred a bit more mobility like you get in a T-Factor, Animal, Wiley, etc. The new boot feels great and I may be moving to that on the back of my ski this year. I run Reflex front. I think anyone that likes old Leverages needs to give the Black Out a try.
    sunvalleylaw6ballsDirt
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,446 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @bishop8950 thanks for your response, if the Leverage Black Out is more flexible, does this mean less lateral support ?

    "In my mind there is more potential to be released.”

  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 826 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited March 2
    @Stevie Boy yes, the new boot is not as stiff side to side or forward and back. In this case, I think less is better. So do D3 or they would not have built it.
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 905 Crazy Baller
    My understanding is that the T-factor is stiffer laterally. I also understand you can rebuild a leverage with T-factor wraps and basically change it over. I think this has been discussed elsewhere. I have been looking into new bindings for my new ARC and have my old ripped up Leverages to work with.
    skialex
  • skialexskialex Posts: 551 Solid Baller
    The older Leverage boot had 2 plastic stiffeners to the sides inside the overlay whereas the similar KD boot didn't. When I moved from the KD to the Leverage I noticed that the Leverage was stiffer side to side due to the plastic stiffeners and the stiffer rubber of the overlay. It took me one set to get used to it and as far as I remember I liked both boots.
    Is this the case with the new Leverage, no stiffeners and softer rubber? I always had this feeling that I could get out of the KD easier than the Leverage but I can not prove that.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,446 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Obviously D3 know what they are doing and @bishop8950 is a well respected and a great skier who knows what he is talking about, but I am a little confused, a lot of people went to hard shells or stiffer boots for more feel and control of the ski, which I thought would include lateral control to help keep the ski on edge, does the new heel cup they talk about help to maintain that lateral control.
    If you go back to the KD vice that particular binding came much further up your leg similar to the T factor.
    The reason I started this thread is because I have to buy a new front binding, I would stick with what I know, but the idea of no laces to faff around with is appealing.

    "In my mind there is more potential to be released.”

  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 826 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited March 3
    How much stiffness or control is somewhat personal preference. Adam Caldwell had a super detailed thread about boots, boot modification and the impacts of you want to read that. But my view in short is the stiffer the boot A) the more leverage you have and B ) the ski will become more sensitive to your movements. Too little or too much is not good. Not sure this is the best analogy but take your computer mouse speed for example. If the mouse is too fast (stiff binding) it's really reactive and twitchy. To slow and it's like you can't get it to do what you want.

    You may need to demo boots to find what you like. No way to determine it 100% on a forum. If you are coming from an old Leverage I would try both the new Blackout and the Tfactor
  • wawaskrwawaskr Posts: 93 Baller
    I had the same concern last Nov. when I was going to get a new set of D3 leverage bindings. After reviewing what they did by adding Wiley type overlays (way softer than the molded rear lace Leverage overlays), I decided to pass and ordered the old version of Leverage bindings from Perf Ski. I guess I will be going to a new binding when this set wears out.....
    Matt
    tdusin
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,255 Crazy Baller
    edited June 12
    Bump - anyone have experience with dbl Black Outs?
  • motoskiermotoskier Posts: 17 Baller
    I ski with the old yellow leverage bindings, tons of support, very durable, (about 15 years old). I have changed the wraps about once a year. I was very disappointed when they discontinued the leverage wrap with the ties (much heavier than the new blackout wraps). I ordered a new blackout front to try, it completely changed the way the ski worked, there was absolutely no support, felt like it was made for a beginner (very comfortable). I am currently looking for a new set up or old leverage wraps.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,446 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    D3 do not list the Leverage with laces on their site anymore, it's Leverage Blackout or Tfactor, I had a look at the Blackout today and wasn't convinced about the amount of lateral support it would give me, obviously @motoskier is not to impressed, anybody else riding with the D3 Blackout.

    "In my mind there is more potential to be released.”

  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 905 Crazy Baller
    I switched over to the T-factors and have been happy. Stiff and responsive laterally. Made the ski feel "edgy" to me at first, but then I got comfortable with it. You might want to try that.
  • VONMANVONMAN Posts: 26 Baller
    I've been skiing on the leverage bindings for years. Loved the lateral support but hated the way they trapped my ankle in a forward fall. I would trim the front of the raps and never used the laces. Front boot, rear toe. Have since bought a new front D3 blackout, did the same modes to the boot and happy to say it felt the same. Couldn't feel a difference.
    Ernie Schlager
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,326 Mega Baller
    I might be talked out of a pair of Leverage size large...one brand new the other a season old...I've gone in a different direction. Otherwise I may just mount them on the jumpers.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • skibackwardsskibackwards Posts: 27 Baller
    I am looking for a leverage front (size M) if someone wants to sell one. Does someone have one in good shape?
  • rokrok Posts: 29 Baller
    Would be great to have some more feedback re the new D3 Leverage binding, especially compared to the T-Factor, as I'm in the market for a new pair (I run dbl boots) to replace my fast deteriorating old HO Approaches, which I really like in terms of fit. It seems to me that D3 markets the T-Factors as their highest-end comp bindings, based on pricing. The simplicity, apparent light weight and clean design of the Leverage appeal to me. However, coming from the Approaches, I guess I can use a reasonably stiff construction (both lateral & fore/aft), so would the T-Factors be the better choice? Are they rated as inherently stiffer than the Leverages? Not clear to me in their blurb...
    Another question is regarding ease of entry: do the Leverages require more effort to slip into, not having the T-Factor's laces? Thanks for all comments.
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