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What do you do when you get crazy coaching and it works?

HortonHorton Posts: 25,331 Administrator
edited March 2017 in Technique & Theory
I was skiing with Muhlitner yesterday at Great Lakes and he gave me the worst coaching ever but it worked. Painful!

The coaching? Don't try this at home but to be smoother out of on-side he had me watching my ski go under the rope.

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thager

Comments

  • thagerthager Posts: 4,224 Mega Baller
    You deserve bad coaching!!!
    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,844 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Go with it. Looking there probably does something else to your body position that is beneficial.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,290 Mega Baller
    There is no bad coaching, only bad students.
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    AndreDeep11RichardDoane
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I've done that. It can help you to keep from loading too soon.
    Jim Ross
  • PT MikePT Mike Posts: 163 Baller
    I use that one all the time when I see someone grabbing the handle to soon before the ski finishes. Am I a bad coach :smiley:
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,160 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @Horton , that's distraction coaching! You need it
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
    aupatking
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,447 Mega Baller
    edited March 2017
    You can do this using peripheral vision with some practice so you don't have to focus your total attention.
  • Orlando76Orlando76 Posts: 668 Crazy Baller
    I'm super guilty of rushing the turn and grabbing handle and load too soon. I'm often told to watch the ski pass under the rope.

    Ha, yeah right, it'd be easier to just finish the turn.
    cragginshred
  • oldmanskieroldmanskier Posts: 128 Baller
    Years ago Chet told me something that sounds like what you guys are describing. If I remember correctly he told me to take as much angle one handed as possible. In other words free hand should not take handle until you are at the angle you want to take across course. I still focus on that key when I am having trouble with my on side turn.
    oldmanskier
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 1,006 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Rob must have soaked up some wisdom over the years!
    aupatking
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,331 Administrator
    @bishop8950 unlikely

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    elr
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 766 Crazy Baller
    edited March 2017
    I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago in Costa Rica.

    I have a tendency to fall back on my ski as I go around 2 ball (offside) as my passes get harder. To correct this tendency I have always tried to reach forward with my handle up around eye level to get good front foot pressure so the tip stays down.

    Nick Parsons was coaching me and observed that I was reaching with my palm up. He then told me to reach with my palm down on my offside turn.

    Sitting in the water, I pointed out to him that would require me to rotate the handle 180*.

    He said, "yes - that's what I want you to do."

    I thought to myself, that ridiculous... seems like a lot of wasted movement.

    I tried it anyway, and I have no idea why it works the way it did, but Nick literally just ended 10 years of frustration of me trying to figure out my offside with that one tip. My offside turn has never been better.

    Maybe it was the 90* Costa Rican water, maybe it was the coconuts, but I was in late season form by Thursday.

    Later, Jim pulled up a video of Nate Smith doing the same thing - who knew!?
    Anthony Warren
    Bruce_ButterfieldToddA
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,331 Administrator
    Difference is I would trust most anything Parsons told me to do.

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    kstateskier
  • So_I_SkiSo_I_Ski Posts: 79 Baller
    @ScarletArrow can you please elaborate as in exactly how or why did the palm down method prevent you from falling back on your offside turn? Thanks.
  • ALPJrALPJr Posts: 1,599 Crazy Baller
    I was given the palm down offside reach suggestion from ski coach David Spencer about 20 years ago. I was amazed by the instant improvement that happened.
    Bruce_Butterfield
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,705 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I have been told in the past to go through the gate and try to ski up the bank, never been so wide / early for one ball.

    " Ski It Like You Mean It ! ”

  • BoozeBooze Posts: 323 Baller
    Hmm...will that work on the offside as well?
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 766 Crazy Baller
    @So_I_Ski Being that it's new technique to me I'm not sure exactly how or why it works the way it does.

    My theory is that it it's actually a less complicated move than what I was previously trying to do - palm up, handle up, inside hip forward, on the front foot.

    With the palm up, when I got to a new speed or line length, if I didn't super-exaggerate all 4 things at once I would end up "spinning out" backwards or just take a long, lazy school bus turn. I also found that I had a hard time picking up 3 ball with my eyes as I made my turn - probably because I can't do 5 things at once.

    With the palm down I only have to think about that one wrist movement as it naturally creates a better body alignment and slows down my motion. I now actually have enough time see 3 ball in front of the boat and wait for the boat to pass it before I grab the handle. Huge difference.

    That's just my theory anyway.
    Anthony Warren
    cragginshredToddA
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,711 Mega Baller
    edited March 2017
    @Horton, I heard a similar piece of advice from @TFIN. It was intended to help let the ski finish more and wait to load until hip and ski were stacked. I agree with others that sometimes a simple bit of focus (or distraction) can help calm things out.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    Hortoncragginshred
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    @ScarletArrow consider the fact that when you use your arms/hand to support yourself in every day life, would you EVER do so with the back of your hand?

    I'd think that with palm up it can also rotate your head/shoulders to the inside as you rotate palm up clockwise.

    thanks for sharing, not something I've noticed with my skiing but going to think about this at some point this year.
    ToddA
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,331 Administrator
    @wtrskior back in the old days palm up was common coaching. When you turn your palm up it helps keep your shoulders from moving forward (hips back). It is not part of the modern coaching playbook but it works. Whatever works.

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    Thomas_Gustafsonwtrskior
  • ColeGiacopuzziColeGiacopuzzi Posts: 376 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @ScarletArrow Parsons taught me that same trick 3 or 4 years ago it works no doubt!
    Cole Giacopuzzi • Radar Skis
    ScarletArrowcragginshred
  • TriplettTriplett Posts: 206 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited March 2017
    Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else who explains it differently. I will tell a person I am coaching variations of the same thing until one of the variations fixes the issue I am seeing. Can be confusing if not explained up front but I have had some major success with it.

    Edit: Clarity
    Brent Triplett - Michigan
    MISkier
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 685 Crazy Baller
    edited March 2017
    The worst coaching hands down is;

    1) Making a simple point with many words.

    2) Giving the skier something different to work on following every pass.

    These tactics do Not work.

    Vapor pro 2017
    Horton
  • eddie_roberts_jreddie_roberts_jr Posts: 442 Water Ski Industry Professional
    Skiing with Drew one time he told me to bring the handle back in a little quicker on my offside. Actually, he told me to sneak it in a little quicker. I must have been leaving it out there too long because as soon as I started doing it I skied better. Who knew? Drewbie did - that's who.
    ColeGiacopuzziRichardDoane
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