Deep water Starts/Bindings and Skis

zara59zara59 Posts: 4 New Baller
Hi Guys!

I'm new to Ball of Spray and the skiing world!
I started about a year ago from scratch on the bar and then progressed comfortably on two skis and then went on to dropping one and running the half course easily. My deep water starts have always been a real tough one for me, I went to doing them consistently all the time last season but now after the winter months I have come to ski again and just can't get up out of the water on one!
I have the green and black radar boot and a toe loop on the rear. I am right foot forward about 5ft 8 and around 77-80kg.

I am skiing on a HO Women's TX, it was a good Ski but felt quite numb on the turns sometimes.

So as a gift my dad brought me a MC Ski 2017! My first high end ski! But I can't do a deep water start on it so I haven't had chance to try it out yet!

So I'm asking for advice on anything I can try and if I should just keep plucking away and maybe one day it will click! Or should I try a double boot binding to stop the ski from sinking instantly?

Thank you and any advice will be greatly apprevited
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Comments

  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,170 Mega Baller
    If the ski is trying to pull a submarine on you then you may be trying to stand up to quickly meaning pushing with your front leg/locking out your front leg before you are out of the water. My advice there would be to stay tucked in your ball, knees close to your chest for longer and be patient. Let the boat pull you out of the water rather than trying to muscle your way up.

    Second thought is that if you have a toe plate, have you tried getting up with your back foot out of the strap and put your foot in the ski once you are up. That's how I get up, with one foot in dragging the back foot and I'm 5'9 180lbs myself. I don't think using a full back boot would be the make or break and could even make it more challenging.
  • david_quaildavid_quail Posts: 96 Baller
    I struggled through deep water starts last year (my first year), and would be lying if I said I dont get a touch nervous even now! So first off ... You're not alone! It's part of the progression.

    For me, there were 2 keys that really help.

    1. As everyone says. Stay balled up. Let the pressure push your knees even closer to your vest as the boat takes off. Don't resist it. Just when you think it's time to stand up ... Don't. Wait another second and then stand up.
    2. I leaned too far back for some reason thinking this is what I should do. Now I focus on getting as much of my ski and upper body out of the water as possible. I literally think about not getting my hair wet ...and making sure the tip of the ski stays out of the water. The second the tip goes under the water ... You're done.

    I have both feet in. Most people say that one foot in is easier, but I can't do that for the life of me.
    RazorRoss3sunvalleylaw
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,170 Mega Baller
    keeping from leaning back like @david_quail said will help. It will keep the ski more horizontal in the water and less vertical so it will want to climb up out of the water rather than play through it.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,149 Crazy Baller
    What type of boat do you have? More importantly, what size engine is it or how much horsepower does it have? Getting dragged by a low horsepower boat is tough when you are learning.

    Definitely stick with the RTP.
    Obrienslalom
  • wannabeballerwannabeballer Posts: 10 Baller
    I can relate getting the deep water start was a real struggle for me too one thing that helped me for a short time was a deep v handle. It stops the ski from going over sideways on you till you get the feel and it is a great rope to have to help others learn too. I only used mine for about a month then never looked back, but it is a huge help.
    zara59
  • Orlando76Orlando76 Posts: 536 Crazy Baller
    edited May 9
    Wait, wait, wait, then wait a lil longer before standing up. I struggled for years with slalom deep water starts. Then I realized it was mainly the drivers fault. My dad pulled me until I got married and he'd take off slower than molasses on a Canadian morning in February. He'd tell me it was easier no matter how much I suggested more gas. My wife is all shoulders and elbows with the throttle. She takes off with a vengeance. My first try with my wife and I'm up with zero struggle. I found when I finally did learn deep water starts that a rear binding helped which was the beginning of a bad habit.

    And keep your arms out and straight, don't pull them in.
    zara59
  • slvrbulitslvrbulit Posts: 146 Baller
    Like @Orlando76 says! Faster the better to get you out of the hole.
    zara59
  • JASJAS Posts: 133 Baller
    Take a look at this

  • zara59zara59 Posts: 4 New Baller
    Thanks everyone for the advice! Much appreciated! Can I just ask for opinions, do you think I should stay on my HO ski for now and gain more balance and nail as many deep water starts as I can. As I do get up now and again and that and there's always the option of dropping a Ski when I can't get up to get skiing as much as I can. Or should I stick with the MC ski and keep trying to get up and get skiing on it?

    Thanks guys!
  • pcmcon729pcmcon729 Posts: 17 Baller
    Zara59, Welcome to the water skiing, we're happy to have you! I have 2 simple bits of advise. This is one of those things that can be over analyzed. First, follow these 4 steps:
    Once the line is tight, inhale lots of air into your lungs. This makes you float a tad higher.
    Squeeze shoulder blades together.
    Tell boat driver to hit it!
    (Key tip) As soon as the boat starts to move, PRESS your less, and pop hips forward. Most beginners allow legs to collapse at this stage, and roll over the front of pop the handle.

    The second part of this, is basic strength building. You tube, "Walking lunges". This will give you leg strength. Also, cable pulley rows, shrugs, upright rows, all in the 15 rep range. Follow this advise and you will be ripping the pylon out of the boat in no time:)
    Let me know how it goes.
    Mick04
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    Yes I would stay on the ski you were having success with to re-establish you deep water start, then move to the new ski.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 4,840 Mega Baller
    You should stay on the TX for now. Once you get up every time without problem try the MC again. You don't say what size the TX and MC are. The MC will definitely be narrower.

    You didn't mention bindings are you moving the bindings from the TX to the MC. If not I would move your old bindings and try them on the MC.
    Mark Shaffer
  • jjackkrashjjackkrash Posts: 376 Solid Baller
    My simple advice for double boots or toe in: keep your front knee on your chest until the ski starts to break out a bit and then using your front foot try and push the ski tip down to help it plane out. Don't knowingly put pressure on your back foot; front-foot-pressure only. This helps me get out of the hole when I am too fat to just pop right up.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,149 Crazy Baller
    (off topic for just a minute) in the video did he say, "even pros miss deep water stars sometimes"???????
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 621 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Holy Cow @Bill22, I must be a pro because I'm bound to miss a start here or there!
    2016 Radar Alloy Vapor
    Bill22
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 114 Baller
    edited May 9
    Two tips:
    1.
    If you start with both feet in, if you ski Left Foot Foward - intentionally lean to the left before the boat goes as the boat will naturally straighten you out as it takes off. If your neutral and drift a little to the right or leaning right to start your toast

    RFF - lean right, same principle.

    2.
    Just as the boat goes lock your core muscles and push the ski forward a bit and hold. This creates a pocket in front of you and helps reduce the drag since it diverts the water around you. Once the ski planes then stand up - as someone else astutely put: just when you think it's time to stand - wait another second...

    HTH's
  • Orlando76Orlando76 Posts: 536 Crazy Baller
    Think I'm going to go against the flow and say to ski your MC right away.
    Rluthi
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 114 Baller
    If you start with both feet in, I have two suggestions:

    1. If you ski with your left foot forward, intentionally lean left before the boat takes off as it will naturally straighten you out on take off.

    If you ski RFF - then lean right, same principle.

    This makes a difference as if you have the ski perfectly nuetral, the slightest wiggle on to opposite side and your toast.

    2. As the boat goes lock all of your core muscles and push the ski out a bit and hold - this will help divert the water around you which reduces drag.

    HTH's
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,149 Crazy Baller
    TX till you get back in the groove.
  • WayneWayne Posts: 381 Baller
    You mention the ski is sinking under you on the pull up. What happens next? Does the rope get pulled out of your hands or are you pulled over the front of the ski?

    I would go back to the TX and work on the form of your deep water starts but focus on the load you feel in your hands. As you try things mentioned above you should be able to feel if it lessens the load on your hands. A few times out on the TX should help your muscle memory and then give the new ski a try again.
  • david_quaildavid_quail Posts: 96 Baller
    edited May 10
    BTW. I'd take the reccomend video with a grain of salt. It has numerous mentions of "pushing out" and "extending the ski as the boat accelerates." I know I'm beating a dead horse hear, but for me, "extending" my legs is the last thing I ever think about. As the boat accelerates I think about the opposite. Allowing my legs and knees come closer into my body without resisting that.
    I never really "think" about extending my knees ... but if i did, it'd be when I'm up and already plaining on top of the water.

    As others have said, stick with the old ski that's easier to get up on for now. Don't underestimate how taxing on the body (and the mind) false starts are and how much they impact the rest of your set.
    Bill22
  • zara59zara59 Posts: 4 New Baller
    Thank you everyone for the advice! I'll let you know how my ski goes on the TX tonight!
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 316 Solid Baller
    The boat you are behind changes things a lot. I have a bow rider with a 3 Liter (135hp.) With that boat I need full power. Getting used to that slow pull-up and the technique needed makes it very difficult behind any good ski boat if the driver floors it. Some drivers innately give a perfect gradual acceleration, but if someone goes full throttle right away it jerks the handle out of my hand. I'm not sure how anyone can get up like that. Main point being....a full throttle acceleration is a lot different from boat to boat depending on horse power.
    dhofertBill22
  • dhofertdhofert Posts: 147 Baller
    @scottscott I feel ya on the full throttle starts. We have a roughly 400hp 4winns and that is how we start. I have popped the handle more times than I can count. Pretty sure that is why I'm out with a shoulder injury now too. Damn driver just won't listen.
    ScottScott
  • zara59zara59 Posts: 4 New Baller
    We have two boats, i ski behind the 2008 Malibu Response, 5.7L.
    The other boat is the Malibu TXI but I found that too powerful at the moment, I hope to be skiing behind it soon though :)
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 4,840 Mega Baller
    No boat should be too powerful of it is driven properly.
    Mark Shaffer
    Bill22ScottScott
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 316 Solid Baller
    I'm not sure there is "too powerful" when it comes to a ski boat, except in the pull up if they're flooring it. I'd say that with either boat you just need to work with your driver to find a nice smooth acceleration rate that works best for you, that very well may NOT be full throttle. May as well be on the TXI.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 4,840 Mega Baller
    @ScottScott is right on. It is all about the driver for people that are learning to get out of the water consistently on one ski. I have a 2002 Malibu and there is nobody that I can think of that I give full throttle to out of the water.

    If a driver is ripping the handle out of your hands talk to them about going easier and more gradual.
    Mark Shaffer
    ScottScott
  • JordanJordan Posts: 842 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    a nice progressive throttle is better for most than flooring it.
    ScottScottjjackkrash
  • amnesiaamnesia Posts: 16 Baller
    I had similar difficulties getting up. What really helped me was a pair of Radar Vice gloves (clinchers). Made getting up a snap.

    Also, when you feel the boat start to pull let your shoulders completely relax and your arms extend forward a little bit (like your shoulders are being pulled out of the sockets - but not really) instead of pulling back on the handle. This will cause your body to move forward a tiny bit and your face will come over the tip of your ski (just a tiny bit) almost like you're going out the front - but you won't. Moving your body forward like this will have the effect of flattening your ski and decreasing drag - which will cause the ski to plane much quicker, rather than acting like an anchor.

    Good luck
    Amnesia
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