When you judge slalom at a USAWS event do you fill out the paperwork with the score for every skier?

HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
edited June 13 in Rules/Politics/Issues
When you judge slalom at a USAWS event do you fill out the paperwork with the score for every skier?

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When you judge slalom at a USAWS event do you fill out the paperwork with the score for every skier? 39 votes

Yes
15%
HortonauskierRichardDoaneBbrandauMSrico 6 votes
No
56%
skidawgthagerski6jonesskiepChef23Bruce_ButterfieldKelvinThan_Boganjimbrakerobscholl-OFDragoToddLraynPat Mtrishel41IlivetoskiklindykurtMISkierMillerTime38 22 votes
Sometimes
28%
RogerdislandanimalelrLeonLlpskierKrleebishop8950jcampBRYBCM 11 votes
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    edited June 13
    Yes
    FYI this thread and poll is limited to readers who have added their USAWS member # to their user profile or otherwise let me know who they actually are.

    If you are a USAWS member and can not vote but want to -just send me a PM and I will fix your account.
    Please do not post about access in this thread.

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    Yes
    One more thing. My vote is wrong. It should say no. Shamefully "NO"

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  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 910 Crazy Baller
    No
    As a tower judge I have never done any paperwork. Just call in scores to the scorer. From the boat I will keep track of ZO letters at ELR events if there is paperwork in the boat.

    Most scorers do paper as well as direct computer entry.

    With last years driving controversies, there is more work/responsibility on the TC, scorers and judges to keep the drivers in check. All but the drivers themselves.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 390 Baller
    As a tower judge no, as a boat judge yes, always. Never been in a boat as a driver or judge where there has never been paper work. My wife is a Chief Scorer, trust me you may need the boat paper work as back up! This goes for C and ELR tournaments.
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    No
    @Horton, you say fill out "the paperwork". I wasn't even aware there was event paperwork for slalom judging, aside from Chief Judges contribution to the tournament package. What is "the paperwork"?
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    HortonOnside135eyepeeler
  • jcampjcamp Posts: 556 Crazy Baller
    Sometimes
    Tower judge no. Boat judge yes.
    tdusin
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,630 Mega Baller
    No
    Everything is radio-ed to the scorer. The scorer confirms. This means to me that it was captured and entered into the computer. My job as a judge is done.

    If one does not trust the tech or person at the computer, or just wants a personal backup, then I guess he or she can grab paper and document whatever.

    Before the immediacy of current systems/process, we'd have a "recap" tower with paperwork as a backup. Now, I think the process locally is two people at scoring: #1 writes everything down as a backup, and #2 enters into the computer. This allows for a computer hic-up and catch up without necessarily slowing the progress of the pulls.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • elrelr Posts: 204 Mega Baller
    Sometimes
    When the scorer asks . . .
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,085 Mega Baller
    I guess it depends on what the LOC and chief officials want to do, paperless seems to be more prevalent in the southern region as our scorers are usually recapping on paper and are pretty astute when it comes to keeping it correct with their digital input..
    Just another old waterski hack!
    MattP
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    No
    Well how about that. The "Tournament Manual" and "AWSA Rule Book" repeatedly refer to judges forms but I found no example of one anywhere on usawaterski.org. Never been told I should be using one in all the training/testing I've had to be a judge.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,853 Mega Baller
    Yes
    it's nice to have paperwork for back up, plus the ability to go back and check scores if there any issues, as a senior scorer I've had more than one laptop have issues while scoring over the years
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    Yes
    did you hear that noise? I think that is Richelle's head banging on a desk somewhere

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  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 4,578 Mega Baller
    No
    When I am in a tower I just call in the score. I try to write it down in the boat but don't always do that. There isn't always a sheet in the towers when I have judged. If there were I would try to write down the scores.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 938 Mega Baller
    No
    We've been doing "paperless" for a long time. What is the point in writing something down if it NEVER gets used?
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    eyepeelerMarco
  • ricorico Posts: 1,145 Crazy Baller
    Yes
    My answer should have been sometimes. As a scorer I keep a paper backup most of the time. As a boat judge or tower judge, I follow what is instructed by the chief judge...

    What happens if the computer crashes and the winds sends all the scorer paper trail in the lake? The more I think about it, the more I think paper score log is the right way to go until all judges have fancy apps to replace it...
    Eric Francois - W Hollywood, CA - 2017 Vapor Pro Build - Reflex Super /R Style
  • John BrooksJohn Brooks Posts: 232 Solid Baller
    I have judged and scored Regionals, Nationals and a number of record events and never seen a judge completing any paperwork. As a scorer I always write it down and enter in the computer.
    ski6jones
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,701 Crazy Baller
    edited June 14
    Sometimes
    I am surprised at the number of comments that essentially say "never seen or heard of paperwork" to be filled out by judges. We once were religious about judges filling out paperwork. It was once done everywhere and gradually drifted away. I NEVER am handed forms at any tournament anymore. Last year at regionals I got a running order. Most sites I don't even get that. Then it got so I'd collect judges forms after the tournament and find them blank or with doodles. I gave up. If I chose to not use a judge(s) again who failed to fill out he forms, I'd be short on judges. I still think it's important. I have seen situations where the scorer makes a mistake. It does happen. If you have the forms you can go back and reconstruct, otherwise the skier is SOL.
    EDIT: see @bishop8950 comment below. Good reason why! @ski6jones on the website look under "Event Sanctioning" then "Online tournament kit". There you will find a "Slalom Judges Form". And for all of you who have never seen one, take a look.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 910 Crazy Baller
    No
    Well, with the ability to post live scores to the www.waterskiresults.com website, the chances of scoring errors being caught early while everyone is still onsite increases. This also creates somewhat of an immediate backup of the scoring data in case the computer does actually crash beyond recovery. Its not as important as it used to be.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
    BRY
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,391 Crazy Baller
    Sometimes
    Tower = no, Boat = yes
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 905 Solid Baller
    No
    Never heard of or been given these papers
  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    Yes
    @Kelvin I wish most sites had internet access and utilized the online system but the reality is that most sites ( at least out west) do not have internet access and do not use that system

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  • Pat MPat M Posts: 452 Solid Baller
    No
    Most of the sites they are imputing the score in the computer as called in. Some (rare) will have paperwork in the boat for you.
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 1,671 Mega Baller
    edited June 14
    No
    I haven't ever done it and nobody has ever asked. Also, my handwriting is horrible. I struggle to make it readable even to me. I would use an app on a phone or tablet, though, as a secondary capture.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
    Horton
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 166 Baller
    No
    No for both, When boat judging I always confirm the line length after each pass with the scorer. If there were any discrepancy it should be discovered between passes (Unless the skier does not complete opener but then it shouldn't matter)
  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    Yes
    I just heard an explosion. Can somebody check on Richelle and make sure she's ok?

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    bishop8950MattP
  • HortonHorton Posts: 22,582 Administrator
    Yes
    @bishop8950 and that is example of why you are a very good tournament official

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    bishop8950
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 910 Crazy Baller
    No
    @bishop8950 @Horton Its also an example of the arrogance of many of the officials in our sport. His word should have been enough to get the score corrected.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
    Bruce_ButterfieldMillerTime38
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,701 Crazy Baller
    Sometimes
    Maybe I shouldn't have just edited my first post, many might just go by it as already read. Please check out the edit
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 794 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Sometimes
    @kelvin I agree. I left out the aspect of the story where the attidude from the other end of the radio was inappropriate. There was quite a lot of discussion on what Teds score should have been. Furthermore, the clip board was ripped out of my hands rudely and I had no idea that what was written would be the ultimate factor. In the end, the right thing happened and I can only hope that the other event officials learned something. I did; use the written notes and persist when you know you are right. Had the right thing not happened I had the chief judges phone number ready to dial.
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