2009 Ski Nautique 196 - motor threw a rod

UWStoutSkierUWStoutSkier Posts: 11 Baller
We have a 2009 Ski Nautique 196 with the PCM Excalibur 343 in it with about 420 well maintained hours on it.

Today it started running weird and making noises, stopped, shut the motor off, and checked the oil and it couldnt be seen on the dip stick. Got a tow back to the dock filled it up with oil and tried to start it. That's when it made a Big Bang.... threw a rod and went threw oil pan - appeares to be the cylinder closetest to the driver seat.

What is everyone's opinions on what to do?
I'm mechanical inclined. What's the cheapest option, rebuild or buy a crate long block?
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Comments

  • spicolispicoli Posts: 109 Baller
    Well you know if u do it it's cheaper so only difference is warranty
    UWStoutSkier
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,572 Mega Baller
    Long block from michiganmotorz would be my first choice. Not much if any money to be saved doing a self rebuild if you need machine work.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    UWStoutSkier
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 203 Baller
    I know your engine is long out of warranty, but I wonder if a friendly call to PCM would have any value. It's remotely possible that PCM has had a recall on this vintage engine or is aware of a problem that they might be willing to help you with. It doesn't seem like your engine should have failed like this so early in its expected life (unless it was run low on oil or otherwise abused). Alternatively, PCM may have a suggestion on repair. If memory serves, PCM has in the past rebuilt engines that were replaced under warranty and had the rebuilts for sale at a good price. A Nautique dealer may have ideas for you too.
    eyepeelerski6jones
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,046 Mega Baller
    Uhhh. "about 420 well maintained hours on it........checked the oil and it couldnt be seen on the dip stick. "

    Something else is going on here. A well maintained boat doesn't simply run out of oil.

    Did you just buy this or have you been doing the "well maintained?"

    If i really did throw a rod, call @jodyseal and see if you can get a new or rebuilt 343
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    MattLHortonMillerTime38hemlock
  • Orlando76Orlando76 Posts: 534 Crazy Baller
    Like the above post states, no oil on dipstick?? Can't call that well maintained and I surely wouldn't expect PCM to do anything after that acknowledgement.
    Mick04aupatking
  • UWStoutSkierUWStoutSkier Posts: 11 Baller
    Well I'm not going to argue with you about maintenance, believe what you want. But here's what I will tell you I worked at a dealership for 5 years and I'm well aware of keeping up with maintenance, our last boat we got 1700 hours out of (and the motor was still good). This boat was bought from a guy who only had his local nautique dealership work on it and it was pristine. We always watch the oil. The boat had only been used for 2 hours since the last time the the oil was checked. So to not be seen on the dip stick, it must be about atleast 1 1/2 quarts low. Where does all that oil go so fast? And then once more was added, it threw a rod immediately when trying to start it.

    Thanks for the info^ on long block availability, I have a whole list of companies I need to call.

    Does anyone know how much a rebuild averages in cost? Granite, theee would have to be machining and check the crank to make sure it's still true. Not leaning towards a rebuild but just keeping my options open
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,572 Mega Baller
    I'd expect to find the oil in the bilge due to a failed drain hose if it wasn't puffing oil smoke out the exhaust. Be hard to tell now as your bilge is certainly full of oil after the rod through the pan, but you could check the drain line and see if it has a crack in it.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    Bruce_Butterfield
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 647 Crazy Baller
    edited July 14
    @UWStoutSkier - if after the last oil change, if the old filter's gasket ring remained stuck to the mounting surface of the assembly, then the new filter with its gasket doubles up on it and doesn't seal well or works loose. The engine can lose oil quickly but its usually evident on the engine cover liner (it makes a bit of a mess). Be sure to check that status, remove the filter on now and keep an eye out for two gaskets (the one on the filter and the old one stuck on top or still on the assembly.

    Have seen this occur after a dealer oil change, maybe into the 2nd or 3rd set and the engine blew, in this case the rod through the block. Fortunately the dealer did the right thing and replaced the engine.
    stå løpet ut
    MISkierBruce_Butterfield
  • DWDW Posts: 1,541 Crazy Baller
    Also, while doing the above mentioned detective work, check the PVC hoses to see if excess oil collected there, might help eliminate where the oil was going. Plug check on the survivors would also provide some insight.
    tdusinwolfgang
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 326 Crazy Baller
    Was it a Fram oil filter? If so did it explode or blow out on the backside where you didn't notice it? Did you have any oil pressure warning indicators?
  • UWStoutSkierUWStoutSkier Posts: 11 Baller
    The dealership did the last oil change, not sure on what type of filter (I'll have to go look) but I know it's not a fram. That's a good point, I will check the filter o-rings and the drain hose. Yes the bottom of the boat is full of oil and needs to be cleaned out. The hole it put in the pan is I'll check the spark plugs as well, and am going to have a bore scope put down the spark plug holes to see what the walls of the cylinders look like.

    @Gloersen did the dealer rebuild your motor or get a long block? Did you ever see the price on it?

    I've called a few different companies on long blocks:
    -Jaspar wants $3,650 with core exchange and 2 year warranty
    -Michigan Motorz wants $2,900 + $50 gasket kit and $215 for distributor pick up or drop off to a business with a fork lift and 1 year of parts and labor warranty
    -Doug Russel Marine wants about $3400 with 1 year of warranty
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,046 Mega Baller
    edited July 14
    So was there oil in the bilge when you checked the dipstick and nothing was on it? Seems like that much oil loss (if it went into the bilge) would be obvious.

    Ive seen the double gasket effect on the filter before - its very easy to overlook and now thats the single most anal thing I check on every oil change on every vehicle. I'll bet a 6 pack thats what happened. If so, you will have recourse with the dealer.
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    A_B
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 113 Baller
    Have someone capture on video the removal of the oil filter and the possible discovery of the extra o-ring...
    Bruce_Butterfield
  • swc5150swc5150 Posts: 1,622 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    This is the boat you replaced the sunken Bu with right? Man you guys have unfortunate luck. Sorry!
    Scott Calderwood
    UWStoutSkier
  • UWStoutSkierUWStoutSkier Posts: 11 Baller
    @swc5150 yes it's been a rough year

    @Bruce_Butterfield not sure if it the bilge was full right away. I'm the same way, I always check for the gasket when doing oil changes.

    I'll check but I don't think that would be it because it's been 20 or 30 hours since the oil change.
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,046 Mega Baller
    20 or 30 hrs since the oil change would be about right to loose several quarts. Just think about the newbie 17yo changing oil at the dealer (or jiffy libe). I'll increase my wager from a 6 pack to a case:)
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    BG1Gloersen
  • tdusintdusin Posts: 10 Baller
    I have seen the oil pan rusted through near where the drain adapter screws into the bottom of the pan, the oil leaked out thru the rusted hole. I was told rusted thru oil pans are a common issue with that vintage of Excalibur engine with the oil quick drain kit installed.
    eleeskioldjeepGloersen
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,504 Administrator
    @Bruce_Butterfield You said "dip stick" Haaaaaa dip stick

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  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,046 Mega Baller
    @horton into the dogfish 90 I see
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    eleeskiHorton
  • keithh2oskierkeithh2oskier Posts: 295 Solid Baller
  • keithh2oskierkeithh2oskier Posts: 295 Solid Baller
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,895 Crazy Baller
    edited July 22
    I saw a SN with a 6.0 get the double gasket treatment. It lasted all of one round trip up and down the ski lake. Well, almost back. Surprisingly it seized up before it got back. Ask @skierjp about it.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • UWSkierUWSkier Posts: 572 Crazy Baller
    Better get that sucker back running before fall semester boys! Any luck sourcing a new long-block?
    UWStoutSkier
  • sixballsixball Posts: 179 Baller
    You said it made noise before shutting down. So I bet you were smoking the bearings at that point. shutting it down and the crank keeps expanding from the heat. as soon as you start the rod is for basically frozen to the crank. At any point you had very significant damage before you restarted.
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,895 Crazy Baller
    If the rod (bearing) had seized to the crank I find it hard to believe that it would crank fast enough to start. I also find it hard to believe that it pitched a rod through the pan at idle speed.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • UWStoutSkierUWStoutSkier Posts: 11 Baller
    I got the motor pulled on Sunday and am still talking with several different companies and figuring out who has the best deal. There was not 2 gaskets on the oil filter and the impeller looks great. Not sure of cause yet but I will tear the engine down, later once the new one is in the boat.
    aupatking
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 86 Baller
    @Bruce_Butterfield @LeonL I feel so lucky today, I avoided the perfect storm.

    @UWStoutSkier Very interested in learning what caused your failure.

    I am super careful and I usually very anal at checking where the oil filter ring is when I take off the filter. Years ago my ski partner missed the double gasket a filter on his Toyota truck. He got 1/2 block before the oil dumped onto the street.

    Anyway, back to the story. I usually drain my boats oil when it is on the trailer. Put the oil drain hose through the water plug drain and let it drain overnight. In the morning when everything is cool replace the filter and add oil.

    This year we have the boat on a lift and we hit the 50 hour mark. Time for an oil change. We finish our sets, put boat on lift and pump out the oil using a vacuum pump. So far everything is great. I decide to tackle the filter when it is hot. Get the zip lock bag and unscrew the filter, play hot potato, drop into zip lock bag, and seal. Screw the new filter in and make it tight. Add 4.5 qts of oil. I was done, it was time to get out from under the boat canopy where it is ~100 degrees.

    On my way home from the lake, I drop off the oil and filter at a oil recycle station. Evidence is now gone. end of story.... not yet....

    Yesterday, was the first day after oil change. I start boat and everything is dry in the engine compartment. We ski 8 sets, and the boat goes back onto the lift. Open engine cover to pull drain plug and there is a sheen of oil in the bilge. There is evidence of oil escaping from the filter with oil spray on the inside of the engine cover. Yesterday it was hot and humid, and I decided to deal with the problem this morning while everything was cool.

    This morning, I started to troubleshoot the problem.
    1. ) Check dipstick for oil. Dipstick had oil and showed that I was just 1 qt LOW. Whew!
    2. ) Next figure out what is wrong with filter.
    3. ) The filter was loose, and could be tightened 1.5 turns. I loosened the filter and could see a second rubber gasket in addition to the one stuck on the filter.
    4. ) I removed the second gasket, reattached the filter, and added 1.5 qts of oil.
    5. ) Run engine until everything is hot.... No leaks.

    With the filter that loose, I was probably 1-2 sets from a catastrophic engine failure.

    Lessons learned.
    1. ) Always deal with the filter when it is cool enough to handle.
    2. ) Double and triple check that the old filter gasket came off with the filter.
    3. ) Wait a couple of days before recycling the filters and oil.
    4. ) Check for that oil filter gasket one more time.
    Bruce_Butterfield
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,031 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    @Mark_Matis Good technique for inspecting the filter. But using EC4 silicone grease (or an equivalent) on the rubber of the filter will prevent sticking and make it easier to remove the old filter. When I use old oil, the filter sticks so badly that I destroy the old filter to remove it. My long oil change intervals contribute to the problem.

    I learned the silicone grease trick because it is a requirement for aircraft oil filter replacement. Safely solves many problems.

    Eric
    Jmoski
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,031 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    And what is it with college kids? UCLA blew up the engine in my old MC.

    Austen, I am following your solution carefully. Or I will convert it to ZO.

    Eric

  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,572 Mega Baller
    The filters on my remote mount seem to stick no matter what. Never had a problem using this type of wrench to get them off. It doesn't destroy them but does crush them a bit.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    vtmecheng
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