Practice at 15 off or 22 off

Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,460 Crazy Baller
I tried starting every practice set at 22 off (16M) and bringing the boat speed up slowly, i.e. 30, 32, 33.5, 34.2 (55K). The plan was that I would get the feel of 22 off and be running it consistently, sooner than if I did warmup passes at 15 off.

The issue is that I don't get as many full warmup passes and then I feel like I am not skiing as well. I typically make 50% of the -22/32 and 25% at -22/33.5mph. Note, I never go up in speed until I make a smooth, full pass.

What do the ballers think? Should I move the speed up by smaller increments 0.2 mph? Or should I go back to 15 off (18.25M) warmup passes?

1. Either way I know I need to have good solid fundamentals.
2. I don't run all of my -15/34mph passes but my thinking is, as I refine skills at -22, those skills would be backwards compatible and help me crush 15 off.
In gear. Hit It. Thank You!


  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,321 Mega Baller
    Either line works, I know a lot of 36mph skiers who will open at 34/-22 rather than 36/-15 because they like the feel of one over the other. In my opinion, the two passes have enough in common that you won't go wrong with one over the other although your wake at -22 is taller than -15. For up the line pass count, personally I like to have three passes that are lights out, going to run them before my "money" pass where if you run it your thrilled but it doesn't always happen. As for how to go about running -22 at full speed, if you are only 50% at the 32mph version then busting yourself at higher speeds than that is likely the wrong approach, if you want the next pass up to be falling with any consistency my advice would be to spend more time at your 30 and 32mph passes either at -15 or -22 really drilling in good habits so you are not only putting 6 buoys in the books every time but making it look good as well. I know it's frustrating not shooting the short line but sometimes you have to take your lumps, learn to ski the openers the right way, and then the money pass will feel much less daunting.
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,321 Mega Baller
    I only take one crack at my opener (-22) per set typically, I tend to start out with a mock tourney run so up the line to failure and then go back and work technique at early passes. No point taking a series of thumpings at your hardest pass if you don't have the one before it locked down solid.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,460 Crazy Baller
    @RazorRoss3 30 and 32 feel so different than 34.2 mph.
    In gear. Hit It. Thank You!
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,321 Mega Baller
    yes they do, however that does not mean that the same technical components don't apply. I've told skiers in the past that when I was working through speeds I always swore they skipped 3 or 4 numbers between 32 and 34 and between 34 and 36. My personal belief why those two speeds feel so different than their predecessors is that they are some of the first to become truly punishing to the long pull and position mishaps. At those speeds, lets say a mistake costs you a quarter second, well the boat has travelled much farther down course in that quarter second than it did at previous speeds so the mistake has punished you more severely.

    The thing is, just because 30 and 32 feel different doesn't mean you can't focus on doing the right things. It is very easy for everyone to be lazy in their openers, long pull, fail to control the handle, break at the waist, etc.. if you don't force yourself to do it right there then you will not be able to do it right at 34. My advice would still be to spend a lot of time at 32 working on being in the right place on the ski and edge changing as early as you can. I think the number 1 thing that changes with 34 is that you have to edge change early if you want to ski early. So really focus on edge changing off the second wake at all speeds and I think it will translate to 34 and t o-22
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,460 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2017
    I like -15/33.5 it has enough speed to be fun and keep me on my toes but I run it with still a high level of success.
    In gear. Hit It. Thank You!
  • BrennanKMNBrennanKMN Posts: 377 Crazy Baller
    I am a skier that starts at 34/-22 and goes to 36/-22 and then run about 60% of my 36/-28 passes. Would you suggest I start a speed slower so I can run more passes before my harder passes?

    34/-22 is easy for me as is 36/-22 the vast majority of the time. I ski each practice round like you, like a tournament and then back to practice. There are times I think having 2 passes before my hard pass is a disadvantage, but I also don't really know.
  • bigskieridahobigskieridaho Posts: 885 Crazy Baller
    @Bill22 I honestly have been working the ZBS style to get more consistent and pulling line. Start at 32/15 and move up 22,28 etc. Helps form and helps my tourney nerves also. After move to 34 again. Just a thought.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,657 Mega Baller
    I am a fan of mixing in shorter line lengths at slower speeds to your training. I don't think I would go to much smaller increments in speed. I would mix in some sets where you run 30/22, try 30/28 and 30/32 if you have success there. I believe the fundamentals to run shorter line lengths at slower speeds carry over to the faster speeds plus it is fun.

    While 34 mph does feel different than 30 and 32 mph you should be running those speeds as perfectly as you can and it will translate to 34 mph. I am fine with not running 15 off but if you are going to run it in a tournament you need to make sure you run some practice sets the week before the tournament.

    I would say mix things up. Run one set like a tournament set down the line then back up a pass from your missed pass and work on cleaning that up. Next set go out at 30 mph and see how far down the line you can go. Maybe next set run 2 30/22s, 2 32/22s and then 34/22.

    Make sure to mix in every 2 or 3 sets the way you would ski in a tournament (assuming you compete). If you don't care about competition sets mix in the way you would like to get to your hardest pass.
    Mark Shaffer
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,321 Mega Baller
    @BrennanKMN, I think that is largely up to you, when I was at that level my tournament set was 34/15, 36/15, 36/22, 36/28, and then if I ran the 28 I'd get my look at 32, so that was 3 warm ups and then the money pass. I didn't mind 15off and I was fine with one speed change, I knew people who went from 32/22, 34/22, 36/22, 36/28 but I felt that I'd rather be at full speed for more of my passes so I chose to work in 15off instead of 22.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,003 Mega Baller
    Try a 28 off at 30 to see exactly where the problems are. To me, 15 and 22 hide a lot of flaws. 28 requires the ski to be on edge though the wakes at any speed. It magnifies why you aren't running the other passes. It is slow enough you can focus on body position until you are clicking them off. Then go back to the longer lines and see if you added consistency and buoys.

    Oh, and 28 is way more fun.
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,150 Crazy Baller
    I never take more than 1 crack at 22 off (opener). There is absolutely no similarity between 22 off and 35 off, so while I do see value in spending time working on fundamentals, everything is different at short line vs 15 or 22 off. Also I wouldn't use your easiest pass to build muscle memory. If I need to get out of trouble at 22 off, I just pull a little harder or turn a little harder. Not quite that easy at 32 or 35.
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