AWSA Extends Model Year Boats For Events

HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
In an effort to make hosting tournaments easier, the American Water Ski Association's Towboat Committee has extended the model year of boats that can be used in Class C and F tournaments all the way back to 2008. "This is a forward-thinking move by our towboat committee," said Jeff Surdej, AWSA president. "Promo boats have become harder to get to tournaments and fewer events are being sanctioned. This should open the door for a lot more sites and boat owners to put together more sanctioned events, which will increase membership and tournament participation."

Click here is the exact wording from the 2018 towboat policy:

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Comments

  • ntxntx Posts: 758 Crazy Baller
    Usa waterski will now allow the use of zero off boats in class C all the way back to 2008 model year with approval from the regional tow boat committee.
    aupatking
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,818 Mega Baller
    FYI, you could always ask the committee for approval for the use of an older boat. I've done it and never been refused for a C.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    ski6jonesaupatking
  • BRYBRY Posts: 534 Crazy Baller
    The exact wording from AWSA:

    a) Class C and F tournaments may use 2018, 2017, 2016, or 2015 Approved towboat(s) (current and three years prior). Class C & F tournaments may use 2008 to 2014 AWSA Approved Tournament boats equipped with Zero Off with the approval of their Regional AWSA Towboat Committee member (or Chair(s) of the AWSA Towboat Committee.

    b) In all instances where a boat older than the current model year is used, the manufacturer must also have a boat on the approved list for 2018.

    The local organizing committee (LOC) may apply to its Regional AWSA Towboat Committee member (or Chair(s) of the AWSA Towboat Committee) for use of an OLDER model year towboat. Consideration will be given to the condition of the boat, speed control system and version of speed control software in the boat. Older boats must follow current Towboat Policy Insurance Requirements.

    Primary change here is Class C and F tournaments may use 2018, 2017, 2016, or 2015 Approved towboat(s) (current and three years prior). No additional approval required for 2015 and newer.
    @lpskier is correct, you could always ask the committee for approval for the use of an older boat.
  • MSMS Posts: 4,285 Mega Baller
    They must still allow PP boats or they would have removed the time tolerance chart
    Shut up and ski
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,910 Mega Baller
    @MS nothing in the rules or towboat committee information indicates anything other than Zero Off as an approved speed control.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • John BrooksJohn Brooks Posts: 270 Crazy Baller
    This is another improvement in our sport. I like @lpskier have never been turn down by the towboat committee for older boats, but certainly makes sense to formalize these guidelines and eliminate the need for making the request. I would be in favor of something similar for record events, but not sure if IWWF would need to weigh in on that.
  • MSMS Posts: 4,285 Mega Baller
    @klindy seams strange that they would still have such a large tolarance
    Shut up and ski
  • bigskieridahobigskieridaho Posts: 570 Crazy Baller
    This is great! Nice to know we are getting the same pull from the boats equipped with zero off no matter the age.
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,879 Moderator
    I love this move by USAWS.

    @John Brooks as I understand it that IWWF does not approve towboats, just the needed buoy times & specs of boats. USAWS is different though. We have approved hulls, props, motors... Its a revenue driver for USAWS......

    An example would be the boat that was used at the world games, Swiss & German Nationals. Not approved in the US for tournaments but is acceptable to the IWWF for record events.

    RULE 10 - BOATS - SKIS - TOWLINES
    10.01: General Boat Description
    For IWWF Towboat Approval refer to Official IWWF Towboat Policy.
    a) Boats must have the performance necessary to attain and maintain the required boat speeds
    while towing a heavy skier under tournament conditions.
    b) Overall length shall be approximately 5 meters but must not exceed 6.5 meters. The beam shall
    be not less than 1.80 meters and not more than 2.50 meters.
    c) Boats shall be equipped with a towing pylon on the centreline of the boat, approximately
    amidships which shall be a minimum of 65 cm. and a maximum of 1.20 meters above the water
    when the boat is standing still with no occupants aboard. The entire pylon assembly shall be of
    fail-safe construction, designed to withstand a minimum loading of 600 kg. through an angle of
    70º from the stern on both sides.
    The towing pylon shall have an area integrated in its design for attachment of a trick release
    mechanism. It is recommended that this area be included both above and below the tow rope
    attachment location and be located as required to insure clearance of the rope and/or trick
    release mechanism from the engine housing. This area for attachment of the trick release
    mechanism shall be cylindrical with a diameter of 50.8mm, +0.00mm, -0.25mm, and a
    minimum height of 28mm. A cantering hole with a diameter of 6.000mm, +0.35mm, - 0.0mm,
    and a minimum depth of 1.8mm shall be located on the centreline of the attachment area height
    and be oriented toward the front of the towing pylon. Any manufacturer not wishing to comply
    shall be responsible to see that trick releases fitting his pylon are available at tournaments where
    his boats are used. (See Diagram-7).
    d) Either inboard, inboard/outboard, or outboard power may be used.
    eleeskiJohn BrooksWaterSkier12Bruce_Butterfield
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 971 Crazy Baller
    Never knew that I/O and Outboard were technically allowed to be used in tournaments
  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 452 Solid Baller
    @bigskieridaho I wonder how many of these boats will actually have the correct up to date downloads? Also, The new single puck ECI in the newer boats ski nothing like a double puck (antenna) boat in older boats. There is also a issue with bad pucks in the dual system and the knowledge to realize that the puck is bad.
  • andjulesandjules Posts: 620 Crazy Baller
    edited August 28
    b) In all instances where a boat older than the current model year is used, the manufacturer must also have a boat on the approved list for 2018.
    That seems like a strange - or at least, not technically relevant - restriction. Is it political? A kind of punishment if the company has dropped out of the 3 event market (e.g. Moomba; or, if Centurion gets rebranded to Supreme in 2018, you can't use an older Centurion)?
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    Age out at 10 yrs? Wondering why my 2007 196 with factory ZO doesn't make the cut?
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,879 Moderator
    @andjules I bet it's about the $$ they companies have to put up to be apart of the boat tests and get approval for tournaments in the US. If they are not paying to play this year their older boats cant play as well. I am not 100% sure about Moomba but I do not think they ever made a ZO boat. As for Centurion I think they will be allowed to. It's the same parent company making the boat. They are just slapping another name on the side.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    Smartest thing I have heard about in a LONG time

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  • skierjpskierjp Posts: 452 Solid Baller
    You also have to remember, who with these older boats will be willing to have their boat used in a tournament and get a additional 8 to 10 hours a day put on their boat? That amount of time would take weeks for private use. Also don't forget about million dollar insurance coverage and the risk of scuffs, scrapes and other damage that could happen at a tournament.
    DragoBruce_Butterfield
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,164 Mega Baller
    This will make a huge difference for collegiate skiing as well since getting boats to an event is frequently the hardest part even beyond securing your chief officials.
    BraceMaker
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 2,575 Mega Baller
    Hmm, in 2008 the vtx was an approved tow boat ;)
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • bigskieridahobigskieridaho Posts: 570 Crazy Baller
    Funny @skierjp as long as the owners keep up with it!
  • DragoDrago Posts: 841 Crazy Baller
    Needs to be a manufacturer currently on the approved list (still involved and paying into the sport)
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,818 Mega Baller
    @MS Rule 8.10(E) provides for hand driving in the event that speed control goes kaput. Hence the need for a timing chart.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    DragoALPJrMSMISkier
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    edited November 6
    I do not know what it is like in the rest of the country but here in Southern California there is a serious lack of promo boats. I can only think of one, current year, promo boat south of Sacramento (plus my ProStar). I know there must be more than that but not many.

    The result is that non-promo boats are getting used and /or one boat is pulling whole events. Adding money to every entry fee and paying the boat owners $5 or $10 per ride pulled is an idea that needs to be talked about more. This is not a solution to the overall problem but does take some of the sting out of getting 5 or 10 hours on your boat in a weekend.

    I am bringing this up now because this is the time of year the tournaments are being planned. No one likes to pay higher entry fees but I want to encourage tournament organizers to consider this.

    Or other ideas?

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  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 342 Baller
    edited November 6
    When I lived in nor cal tournaments had as many as 3 maybe 4 mfgs. Now with one company pulling a tournament in most cases the promo person is getting no additional money from the tournament and may even have to pay to ski. In addition the boat may also be getting 10 hrs per day with no additional compensation. That with the added stress of selling it every year no wonder the promo boats are far and few. @Horton you are correct. Something has to change.
    It seems to be that the tournaments don’t want to compensate the promo owner. The tournaments believe in most cases that the factory money is enough.
    Dave Macchi / Nautique promo team member
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    @dave2ball I can not understand how a tournament organizer can be against charging a few extra $ per round for the boat owner. I guess there can be some push back from the skiers but anyone in this sport who does not have an extra $10 per ride is in the wrong sport.

    To be clear I am not suggesting the money come out of the event organizer's pocket.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 342 Baller
    @Horton I know what you are say is that the skier should pay the additional cost. I’m all for that. My take is if the tournament organizer takes $10 more per skier or entry and states that is goes to the promo boat owner the overall entries may go down because many people or skiers believe that the factory promo compensation is enough and should not get additional.
    Dave Macchi / Nautique promo team member
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    edited November 6
    @dave2ball and that is why it's important thing for us to talk about here. If charging more for tournament entries is one of the things that's going to help the situation we just need to educate the membership.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 342 Baller
    @Horton agreed.
    Dave Macchi / Nautique promo team member
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,898 Crazy Baller
    At our last tournament (Labor Day weekend) I used my '08 196. There were no promos in KY. The only one had just been sold and picked up. As an LOC, I'm in for charging an additional $10 and paying the promo person. How does that help if there aren't any? If there were, how do I get the word to them that they'll get compensated? At the time I sanctioned our 2017 tournaments I took @Jody_Seal 's suggestion and for the first time in 22 years did an official "tow boat request". That yielded me nothing. I was able to to get promo boats to two of our tournaments and that was due to a direct request. I asked them if they had been contacted by their promo coordinator, since I put in the request online at sanction time, and both said no. So,moral to that is requesting via the USAWS online request is worthless.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 342 Baller
    @LeonL If you want to get the word out let the promo coordinator know your intentions or talk to the promo person directly. If you are going to host a tournament after the nationals nobody can guarantee you a promo boat because the need to sell them ASAP. Most promo people are not going to lose a sale for a tournament.
    As far as the tow boat request form I know it does work. The best thing to do is contact the coordinator directly.
    Dave Macchi / Nautique promo team member
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,910 Mega Baller
    There's a reason(s) why there are so few promo boats now. Boat prices are higher and promo "deals" are likely not worth it anymore. Simply ignoring the root causes and charging skiers more isn't likely the long term solution.

    As I understand it, the whole concept of the approved boat process was an income generator for USAWS and a process where towboats were given a gateway of sorts to pull tournaments. While the promo programs were meant to get new(er) boats at the tournaments, they were also a sales stream for boat manufacturers. And boats that pulled a certain number of local tournaments were able to pull regionals, pulling 3 out of 5 regionals allowed them to pull nationals.

    I'd like to see real statistics of the number of promo boat owners today vs historically. I'm sure there's a decline but how much? Likewise, in the 80's/90s there were a handful of boats that were assigned (or sold or whatever) to the top level skiers. Seems today there are a lot more skiers who are sponsored by boat companies. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or undesirable, just makes it different from years past.

    Perhaps understanding the reasons why fewer people are interested in being promo owners is part of understanding the problem. Certainly it's related to the cost, but what's the solution?
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
    Bdecker
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