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Senate Graphite, Lithium or Vapor

Looking for some insight on purchasing a 2017 Radar ski.
I currently ski on a Senate Alloy, at 15off 30-32mph and struggling through the course and open water skiing. I share the ski with my wife, which is not ideal. The boots are too big for her, and we are wearing out boots quickly with the 2 of us in and out of the ski so much. So she would like to take my 2015 Senate Alloy, as she loves the ski and put small boots on it. Therefore I need a new ski, and not sure what I should buy. I don't feel I'm a Vapor level skier, but also don't want to have 2 Senates in our arsenal.
I had my mind set on a 2017 Senate Graphite, with the updated shape and better construction being enough of a difference to justify a second Senate. The reviews on the Lithium seem to be superb, and I've started leaning that way. The final choice would be a Vapor Graphite.. But really at 42 yrs old, I don't see myself going short line or 36mph any time soon.
The course we ski at is on a fairly large lake, we get boat traffic and wind, so its not very often that we see glass. Similarly out open water skiing is pretty disturbed too with weekend traffic.
(Hope Horton chimes in here, as I really liked your review on the Lithium)


  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,640 Mega Baller
    Since you have the green light to buy I would go with the 2017 Senate Lithium. I don't think there is a down side to going with the Lithium.

    Another option if you don't want two Senates is the new HO Omni. That seems to be targeted at the same skier as the Senate.
    Mark Shaffer
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,660 Administrator
    Nobody ever regrets updating the materials on their ski. The lower price-point skis are really good but 99 times out of 100 the better construction is worth the cost.

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  • SivotaSivota Posts: 108 Baller
    @chef23 has a point, but try as I might I have not been able to find a price for the Omni in the US or the UK. Prices are settled for Australia and you can order one there. I seriously was considering the Omni Syndicate but cannot compare it to a Senate as no one has the pricing let alone predicted availability.
  • buskibuski Posts: 110 Baller
    I've skied a graphite (16) and lithium (17). Granted there was a shape change but compared to the 16 graphite, the 17 lithium feels faster (in a good way), is easier to ski on, is more responsive but still more stable than other skis I've been on. After skiing on the graphite (demo) I decided to buy the 17 lithium. I'd have been happy if what I got skied the same as the 16 graphite, but am even happier on the 17 lithium.
  • MarcusBrownMarcusBrown Posts: 139 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Not trying to steal the thread here, but simply because of the success I've already seen with the new Omni series, I have to mention it.

    Yesterday, I put a young woman on the Carbon Omni, who had never run more than 3 buoys in here life (was skiing on last years HO CX). She immediately ran 2 full passes.

    At the higher end, of course you have to take this with a grain of salt, but Will Asher ran 41 off at 34.2 mph on the same Omni shape (Syndicate Omni, instead of Carbon Omni).

    The Omni is based on a Syndicate Pro rocker line, with a slightly wider platform, and clean-edge tail. It is a completely new design, that I've already seen people gain 4-6 buoys on, at line-lengths of 28 and 32 off, yet its something that allows me to freeski and get aggressive on in the open water. Incredibly well rounded ski.

    At the moment, probably because I'm still nursing my back, the Omni is the ski I get most excited about when I walk into my ski shed and turn the light on.
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 542 Solid Baller
    Water Ski Community needs independent opinions.
    Something like -
    With all my respect to manufacturers which make really good stuff and improving year to year.
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 538 Crazy Baller
    The constructions below the Lithium are a bit damper, which can be nice in rougher water. I have skied both PU and PVC cores in rough water and the PU core was clearly "quieter" whereas the PVC core skis can have a bit of a ping to them in choppy water. However, I don't know that this is reason enough to go with a PU core if budget is not an issue. I know that I got used to the pinging feel of the PVC core quickly and didn't really notice it after a few sets.
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 249 Baller
    How close are you and your wife in terms of weight? - dangerous question I know!

    My guess is you would each need a different length ski anyways, especially if your running the course.

    Nothing wrong with a matching set of his & hers Radar Senates!
  • C5QuestC5Quest Posts: 149 Baller
    Lithium Senate ... can't go wrong. Fast and forgiving
  • igkyaigkya Posts: 501 Solid Baller
    Lithium Senate.
  • bikesrusbikesrus Posts: 24 Baller
    We have "his and hers" Lithium Senates. Everyone that has tried ours wants one of their own!
  • andjulesandjules Posts: 761 Crazy Baller
    I'd consider the graphite and the lithium, but drop the alloy off the list.
    Traditional fiberglass, non-carbon skis (like the alloy) are going to absorb too much of your effort when you're in the course. You want a stiffer layup that will get you earlier to the next ball with the less effort.
  • DekeDeke Posts: 364 Baller
    @andjules The 2017 Alloy Senate is all carbon.
  • WindsurfnutWindsurfnut Posts: 36 Baller
    I already have the Alloy, its not on the list. Its going to the wife and is the right size for her, she just needs to put small boots on it.
    I think the Lithium makes sense.. Now does anyone know of a 2017 67 available. Most of the online places are sold out, or if showing available, when I call its actually not there.
  • DekeDeke Posts: 364 Baller
  • JBBJBB Posts: 57 Baller
    I am not sure this is much help, but I will be posting a 69' 2016 HO CX tomorrow. I has been skied on ~30 times, and will have double freemaxx bindings. My cousin skis on the Radar Senate Alloy, and they a similar. The CX is a bit more slippery and likes to turn a bit harder than the Senate. Just putting it out there.
  • packskipackski Posts: 27 Baller
    I don't think the Senate Lithium is available anymore?
  • andjulesandjules Posts: 761 Crazy Baller
    Thanks @Deke. If the alloy is all-carbon, it makes me curious about the marketing-speak behind the 'all terrain core' vs the 'aerocore' and what it all really means in terms of stiffness/responsiveness. It would be great to here an honest, comparative review of all three by a mid-level skier in the course.
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,455 Crazy Baller
    The Alloy was fiberglass, in 2017 it was upgraded to all carbon. In a discussion way back (not sure which one) Brooks explained the difference.

    As stated before, buy the best materials you can afford and if unsure what ski is best for you call Radar.
    In gear. Hit It. Thank You!
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 542 Solid Baller
    @packski 6 weeks ago I could not find Lithium. Got Graphite .
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,115 Mega Baller
    Curious what the 2012 senate - not the C version was made out of. It has been a good, durable ski. Considering a new ski for next season but concerned that the materials now are not tolerant enough of sunshine to survive the ski rack.
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • eddie_roberts_jreddie_roberts_jr Posts: 442 Water Ski Industry Professional
    The Senate C was carbon fiber with a polyurethane core.
  • escmanazeescmanaze Posts: 572 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited August 2017
    @Windsurfnut If you go out there right now and find a holdover 2017 lithium senate 67" for sale for any kind of discount significant at all I will be really upset. I just looked really hard. In the end I purchased a 2018 darn near full price, which I'm sure will be a great ski, but I was hoping to get a ripping good price somewhere, and not to mention I liked the graphics so much more on the 2017 because of my college football allegiances.

  • escmanazeescmanaze Posts: 572 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited August 2017
    Here is the thread with the pics of my new 2018 ski. The graphics are fine, but it would have been cool to perfectly match my college team's blackout uniforms, which were already my favorites.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,115 Mega Baller
    @eddie_roberts_jr how about the regular senate? In your opinion which would be the current senate with the best chance of surviving being out in the sun?
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • eddie_roberts_jreddie_roberts_jr Posts: 442 Water Ski Industry Professional
    If you absolutely have to leave something out in the sun it would probably be better if it wasn't black like the Lithium. The Graphite is lighter in color and the Alloy is even lighter yet and it is basically the same ski minus the adjustable fin and plus the wood stringers in the forebody of the ski. If your ski was at least in a bag on the rack it would be kept cooler than sitting in the direct sun.
  • C5QuestC5Quest Posts: 149 Baller
    @escmanaze I'll trade you my 17 for your 18
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,115 Mega Baller
    edited September 2017
    @eddie_roberts_jr - OK, this is getting way off topic but putting a ski in a black bag keeps it cooler than being directly in the sun? Seems like it would get just as hot with the added benefit of the steam bath as the bindings are drying out.

    In any event a bag in a ski rack isn't really doable - the syndicate bags (that we keep our radar skis in) are better than most but wouldn't survive long flapping in the racks at 34+ MPH. Typically it is the bottom of my ski facing the sun.

    Thanks for the info though, maybe you guys can start making the skis white again ;)
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
  • escmanazeescmanaze Posts: 572 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @C5Quest If you were in Utah, I would actually consider it. However, start adding shipping costs and graphics suddenly fade on my importance list once we start talking real money.
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