Strength and flexibility for waterskiing

sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
Other than cross fit, which is being discussed in another thread, what resources do you all have for good stretches and core/back strengthening, and flexibility? I want to further protect and strengthen my lower back etc. Right now, I do basic core, and some basic stretching, but feel like there could be more. I also mountain bike a lot, and go hiking. Used to run, but quit that due to injury, and my IT band getting too tight. During winter, I alpine ski, nordic ski both skate and classic, and attempt to continue core. I do not stretch near enough.
floridagm
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Comments

  • UWSkierUWSkier Posts: 648 Crazy Baller
    core/back stretches are a good start, but the bulk of slalom injuries I hear about that aren't necessarily crash-related are due to tight hips, quads, and hamstrings. Piriformis stretches especially like the "pigeon" pose in yoga or modifications to that are key for me personally. Slalom alignment can cause some real sciatic issues if you don't keep your hips loose.
    lakeaustinskiersunvalleylawozskiparkerc2112
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 2,105 Crazy Baller
    Crossfit is so specific to the local gyms ethos so you have to look at what their other programs/classes are like. A good assessment by a trainer is the place to start.
    sunvalleylaw
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
    @UWSkier , you hit the nail on the head. The first time I had sciatic issues I can recall is late 80's early 90's when I learned to shove that ski around, lock and load (with as good a position as I could manage) and pull. Shoulder down, back arm pressure. Looking directly across the wakes to help complete the turn.

    I have tight hips, often a tight IT band, particularly my right leg (and I am LFF), and I am sure from my lawyer sitting I have a tight piriformis (sp?) and front side too.

    I would enjoy a cross fit type of work out on shoulder seasons (spring and fall) between ski seasons, as I like that sort of practical bang for your buck fast workout. But, I would have to be really, really careful. I do NOT see myself bending over and flipping over monster tractor tires.

    Some form of yoga or at least yoga like stretching has to be a part of it. But I also want ways to functionally strengthen the area, as it loosens up hopefully.
  • skisprayskispray Posts: 108 Baller
    Is there anything that's like yoga but more exciting? I can do crossfit because it's short and intense. Yoga - I wish I could stick with it but I find it boring. Maybe going to a studio would help. I have a hard time working out on my own in my home. But I'm not sure that'd be enough. I'm with @sunvalleylaw I want more flexibility, more core strengthening, and something that's exciting enough to keep me doing it.
    Than_Bogan
  • skibrainskibrain Posts: 917 Crazy Baller
    Inline skating and Nordic xc skate in winter. Used to run a lot but now run some. Pull ups and core work during winter. Never in the gym. Age 57.

    Skiing more always helps. 2 days a week is barely maintaining ski fitness for me. 3 - 4 days is better and getting stronger. Try to have a rest day if I've done three days in row.
  • bkreisbkreis Posts: 254 Baller
    @sunvalleylaw @skispray I train via email with skiers. Minimal equipment necessary. Have room for 3 more skiers this winter. Contact me if you'd like to inquire. Www.skyfitness.com.
    ozski
  • epnaultepnault Posts: 157 Baller
    Get this book and buy the tools. It takes time but you will see results in skiing and other thing you do athletically. It really breaks down where your weaknesses are in mobility and if not addressed you can't improve.

    Becoming a Supple Leopard - By Kelly Starrett
    sunvalleylaw
  • JustAnewbJustAnewb Posts: 6 Baller
    edited September 2017
    I've done the original P90X program a few times and the only thing I still use is the yoga and core discs. Although not for awhile now. I find an hour a night of yoga takes all the back pain away and is quite relaxing. Also a great way to work on core strength in the off season. I also have a solo F80 treadmill that I walk on. I don't jog anymore but I do enjoy the incline feature. I use light weights for curls and working my shoulders while I'm walking.
    sunvalleylaw
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,974 Mega Baller
    I worked out with @bkreis for about 10 years. Can't recommend him enough if what you want is a home workout program.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    bkreis
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
    @UWSkier Ok, that pigeon pose is tough. I am starting out with lizard and getting to there.
    UWSkier
  • Deep11Deep11 Posts: 198 Baller
    Here is everything you need:
    https://www.gymnasticbodies.com
    You may never achieve the "gym" moves but the approach is to slowly condition the body before building the strength - avoids injury.
    Have done all sorts in the off season - this makes so much more sense. Listen to the podcasts of coach sommmer to understand what its about:
    https://tim.blog/2016/05/09/the-secrets-of-gymnastic-strength-training/
    Oh - you cancel the gym membership too :)
    sunvalleylaw
  • TriplettTriplett Posts: 205 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    For flexibility, ROMWOD is a great source. It is basically yin yoga but in 20 minute sessions. I found my flexibility great increase and it is fairly cheap, about 15 a month. My yoga instructor wife even does it, even though she was super skeptical in the beginning. This along with a good trainer, or good crossfit gym, would be the best (note: a good crossfit coach will keep injury risk to a minimum, I have been injured more waterskiing than in the gym). In addition to a good training program I believe Olympic weightlifting (clean and jerk/snatch) to be the most beneficial to skiing, as it is high energy and technical, so you it still works your brain.
    Brent Triplett - Michigan
    sunvalleylaw
  • TJOTJO Posts: 11 Baller
    edited September 2017
    I highly recommend Foundation Training found online at www.foundationtraining.com.

    After suffering from lower back pain for about 4 months earlier this year and trying multiple chiropractors, cryotherapy, massage, and a professional stretcher, Foundation Training did the trick for me. Best part is it only takes a few minutes a couple of times a week to keep things in check now.
    sunvalleylaw
  • Deep11Deep11 Posts: 198 Baller
    Here is everything you need:
    https://www.gymnasticbodies.com
    You may never achieve the "gym" moves but the approach is to slowly condition the body before building the strength - avoids injury.
    Have done all sorts in the off season - this makes so much more sense. Listen to the podcasts of coach sommmer to understand what its about:
    https://tim.blog/2016/05/09/the-secrets-of-gymnastic-strength-training/
    Oh - you can cancel the gym membership too :)
    Triplett
  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,911
    I can't say enough about TRX training for all around core strength and muscle coordination. A lot of the movements get multiple muscle groups to engage and transmit power through your core. Plus there are a ton of flexibility exercises you can do with it as well.
    Bob Grizzi
  • braindamagebraindamage Posts: 97 Baller
    I have done a combination of triathlon and p90x training for the past several years. It's usually a lot more run and bike and a little strength and a little swim plus yoga 2-3x/mo. Not so great for waterski muscle build and injury prevention.

    This year I plan to run-bike-swim 1x/week each, then do 2 days strength (1-p90x like workout i created, the other waterski specific
    http://www.waterskimag.com/features/2014/06/18/how-to-slalom-strong), then yoga 2x/ week. I hope this gives me the right balance.

    I bought the supple leopard book and have the trx system, so my plan may morph.

    We'll see how this plan works and whether I have the time-energy-tenacity to do it consistently.
    sunvalleylaw
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
    edited September 2017
    Ok, in the last week, I saw a good massage therapist who works on high level snow and cycling athletes (among others) in the area and who specializes in opening up the hips and lumbar issues. Did some good work on me, and gave me a little massage pressure ball and a band, and instructions for my roller, along with links to some stretching and yoga. I also saw my PT who helped me recover from L4/L5 herniation to review his program and expand. Long and short, I have a tight psoas area and hip flexors, and also gluts and the stabilizing muscles up in the upper sides of the hips. I am a little tighter on the right side (rear leg in slalom) as opposed to left side. But not horrible.

    Good news is the joints themselves are in good shape and have good mobility, and that I am strong. Just need to get things opened up and looser, and firing better as a result. From both practitioners, I have some suggested exercises, stretches, etc. that I will compile and share as a resource. The PT guy gave me basically five moves, including a TRX type move, in addition to my normal plank and side plank routine he gave me before. He wants me to hold off on any bicycle crunches or any lower ab type crunches for a month, to allow the hip flexors to loosen up. They both say I have very normal middle aged athlete issues, especially for one who also has a desk job (front hip, hip flexor tightness), so am thinking others may find something useful. Will probably need until into this weekend to do that.

    Now, the trick will be to make sure I make the time to do this stuff on a regular basis. That is also the motivation to compile the information in one place, so that I don't have to think and can just get into some of it most days.

    Meanwhile, here are is a link to the foam roller instructions at a publicly available website, which is part of the information the massage guy provided:

    Sports Medicine Institute Guides
    B_S
  • RichRich Posts: 246 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Bikram Yoga
  • bf`bf` Posts: 89 Baller
    Does anyone else use a slackline for core strength and balance training? I picked one up a few years ago to use as an off season diversion, and do it regularly now. It's a great way to improve core strength, increase spatial awareness, and learn where you are in relation to gravity (sometimes the hard way). It's fun and challenging, too.

    I consider this to be the "washer under the fin block" of exercise tools to help my skiing.
    sunvalleylawdvskier
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 656 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @sunvalleylaw , what exercises/moves did you find worked best for the tight hips/sciatic pain? I used to have the exact same symptoms as you when I used to run so have gone away from that. The sciatic issues just came up recently after the start of ski season. I have a desk job pretty much so looking at ways to stay limber. I go to the gym and typically do weights with about 20 minutes of cardio 3x/week. Stretching...Not so much but know it's something I'm going to have to incorporate.
    2014 HO TX
    1996 Malibu Echelon
  • WaterSkier12WaterSkier12 Posts: 162 Baller
    gt2003-check out Stuart McGill’s books, videos on safe back exercises
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 656 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Thanks @WaterSkier12 . I found some basic yoga stuff for sciatic nerve pain as well. I was amazed how tight my hamstrings are. Well, not really that surprised come to think of it!
    2014 HO TX
    1996 Malibu Echelon
  • elijah_doboselijah_dobos Posts: 2 Baller
    I find that climbing is a great way to improve grip, back, and core strength. Combined with moderate stretching it's pretty good for flexibility too. A lot of the ski team at Michigan does it throughout our long winter to maintain fitness.
    DaveD
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 168 Baller
    To help with tight hips and muscles I roll out my problem areas before running, lifting, skiing.

    I swear by the rogue supernova 2.0 ball for getting my hips, IT bands, etc. It digs in almost as much as a great massage therapist.

  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
    edited April 9
    @gt2003 I found out that my medial glut and glut minimus were weak, after doing some functionality and ROM testing as part of snow ski training. So I added that to the list. You should check that out as it can be a root cause of the issues I was describing. I got some therapeutic massage, did some exercises including band training on my lower legs, (stepping sideways, diagonal to the rear repetitions with the band, lunges, leg raises, etc. And a lot of stretching using poses such as pigeon and modified pigeon among others. That, and a lot of core and general stretching and general conditioning I do anyway seemed to do fine. I also laid off for about a month bicycle crunches, reverse crunches or anything that would tighten my hip flexors, as I attempted to loosen things. Seemed to work great for me, and gave me good results in preparing for my Level III Alpine exam. I am sticking with it as I enter waterski and cycling season.
  • gt2003gt2003 Posts: 656 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Thanks @sunvalleylaw and the rest. I've started with some basic yoga stretches including the lizard pose for now. I'll keep It up and progress to the pigeon hopefully soon. I hate that I'm getting old enough to have to stretch but glad that I still have the ability to do so!
    2014 HO TX
    1996 Malibu Echelon
    sunvalleylaw
  • DaveDDaveD Posts: 595 Crazy Baller
    @gt2003 If you are at a desk all day, look into getting a stand-up/sit-down desk. A lot of companies are providing them if you ask. I bought my own when I started working out of my house. Money well spent.
    braindamage
  • WaterSkier12WaterSkier12 Posts: 162 Baller
    Varidesk.com
    Have one at home and the office, adjustable if u wish to sit or stand. Works great, well made.

    Sunvalley- you’d b surprised at how many people have weak hip Abductors. Sitting at a desk, driving all day. Plus most people that exercise run, lift weights etc and don’t do any abduction strengthening, all quads, hamstrings, glute max
    Getting better these days with emphasis on core strengthening etc, etc
    sunvalleylawbraindamage
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,131 Crazy Baller
    @DaveD , @gt2003 I do just that. I have a stand sit, that I usually leave up, then have my laptop I haul around for my sitting position, with a well positioned separate bluetooth track pad and keyboard. Standing was key to recovering from my original low back disc injury.
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