Wing Orientation

S1PittsS1Pitts Posts: 30 Baller
It's that time of year when I experiment to see if there is something new or something old for that matter that might make a change for the better, after all what might not have worked in the past might just be the ticket to move one along to the next level right?
It got me thinking that years ago when fin numbers were posted the orientation of the fin, upside down or not, was also included. I cannot remember the last time I have seen someone running the wing any other way. I plan on trying it tomorrow just to see what happens.
So is the wing below the mounting screws (upside down) the definitive way to mount the wing?
Thanks
KR

Comments

  • Mike GileMike Gile Posts: 217 Solid Baller
    Yes
    Spuddy
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,512 Administrator
    Screws up is the modern default. Back in the day it was the other way around. Is there any wonder why we're all so confused

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    Horton
  • Alberto SoaresAlberto Soares Posts: 254 Baller
    I do not know why but I feel the screws down wing adds about 0.5 degrees of drag compared to the normal wing (both with the same angle)
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 795 Crazy Baller
    Gets the wing further away from the bottom of the ski; less interaction with the bottom of ski, so each movement of wing has a cleaner effect.
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 273 Baller
    I went with screws down on my 9100 back in the day (of 36mph).
    IIRC, it smoothed out the onside turn, like it reduced skid.
  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 833 Mega Baller
    edited October 3
    Complete Guide to Water Skiing says:

    Higher on the ski - Provides more deceleration and braking. The ski also rolls up on edge more because of an increase in tip pressure on your on-side turn.

    Lower on the ski - Provides more stability through the wakes and in the turns. The ski will turn better on your off-side turn because of the increase in tip pressure.

    @skijay said succinctly in this thread:

    "The tuning opportunity here is that if you want more drag without also engaging more tip, run the fin right way up with more angle. If you want more of the front of your ski in the water without increasing drag much, run the wing upside down or even lower on the fin with the same angle."
    Patience is the key to Joy.
    6ballsS1Pitts
  • DaveDDaveD Posts: 532 Crazy Baller
    @horton. You gave yourself an Insightful? Nice.
    MISkierUWSkier
  • S1PittsS1Pitts Posts: 30 Baller
    @dchristman your post basically nailed what I felt out there today. Fin up definitely increased the braking power but the ski really lost that locked in groove feel it normally has in the turns which resulted in me loosing some of the trust I had in the ski being there at the end of the turn. It also seemed to make the ski want to wheelie at the end of the turn if I had a bit more rear foot pressure than the front.
    The result of this experiment allowed me to feel what I was missing. I ended up with fin upside down set at 8 deg instead of 9. I then increased the DFT 0.015" so now the ski is carrying a little more speed making me a bit wider and faster in the turn. The increase in DFT closed up the turn a bit allowing me to carry more of that speed right to the wakes yielding a smooth hook up to the pull.......heaven on earth!
    Is there anything better than a sunny day out in the fall sunshine with not a breath of wind skiing to the point of total exhaustion?
    Thanks to all those who posted and helped me work through my thought process.
    Cheers
    KR
    BG1Dano
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,195 Crazy Baller
    a while back some one posted an article written by kris la point that addressed all conceivable placements of the wing and the resulting effects. find that and consider it as gospel. old testament maybe... but still gospel.
  • dchristmandchristman Posts: 833 Mega Baller
    @mwetskier here it is quoted by you in this thread:

    Wing Location by Kris LaPoint:

    Where you place the wing on the fin makes a big difference–no, make that a huge difference. Even on the same ski, you may position it differently than another skier would place it. It takes plenty of trial and error to find the optimum location, but it’s worth the effort. Here are some general guidelines for adjusting your wing position:

    Moving the wing toward the rear (putting the trailing edge of the wing about 0.5 in. From the rear of the fin blade) pushes the ski out in front of you in the turn and makes the ski finish the arc more quickly. This is especially good if your ski tends to finish behind you at the end of the turn.

    Moving the wing forward, to about middle of the fin blade makes the ski stay in the turn longer and helps keep it underneath you while finishing the turn.

    Moving the wing up the blade, toward the bottom of the ski, lets the ski roll up on edge easier in the pre-turn and may slow the ski slightly more than a lower placement.

    Lowering the wing placement provides more stability. The ski feels more locked in and is also harder to roll up on edge during the pre-turn.

    Wing angle is a totally separate issue. If you are using a wing, it has got to have some downward angle. The minimum is about 5 degrees and the maximum about 124 degrees. Common knowledge says the more angle, the better the ski slows down and the more drag the ski encounters while traveling across wakes. I don’t disagree with this, but wing angle plays another important role–it also affects how the ski turns. More wing angle promotes rounded constant-radius turns, while less angle yields a turn that’s slower to start with but very hard to finish. Most skiers like the characteristics of more angle on their off-side turns, and less angle on their on-side turns.

    Like a lot of things, with fine tuning your ski you must find the best compromise. Spend a lot of time trying new locations and angles you think might not work. You may be surprised how much difference it will make.

    (cut and pasted from an old online magazine article)
    Patience is the key to Joy.
    ChunkydS1Pitts
  • liquid dliquid d Posts: 795 Crazy Baller
    If it was easy to do, everyone would have wings of differing angles on each side of the ski. come up with an idea, you engineers!
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,195 Crazy Baller
    wow, i posted that? i thought i had just copied it after some one else posted it. i guess getting old sucks... but it still beats the alternative.
  • CBR51CBR51 Posts: 31 Baller
    Running wing with screws on bottom always felt like tail rode deeper to me?
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 273 Baller
    Good stuff. Now, how about lateral (front to back) placement of the wing?
  • S1PittsS1Pitts Posts: 30 Baller
    @Booze After reading the post by @dchristman of Kris LaPoint's wing location guide I have been thinking about slotting the holes horizontally to play around with fore aft wing placement. Hope the weather holds long enough to do with this.
    KR
  • UWSkierUWSkier Posts: 572 Crazy Baller
    For @DaveD

    WaterSkier12jayski
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,619 Mega Baller
    edited October 6
    (Deleted. Made no sense.)
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • DaveDDaveD Posts: 532 Crazy Baller
    @UWSkier Reminds me of a George Carlin bit.
    WaterSkier12UWSkier
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