Will a -38 skier feel fin changes more than a -28?

cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 639 Crazy Baller
In the context of fin setting the question came to mind -Will a -22 to -28 skier not get as much benefit from fin adjustments as a -35 to -38 skier?
While on the dock last week, we checked my new 2018 factory settings and they were all within a 'C hair' of the numbers given and I knew it was less than optimal conditions so I just ran em. Just curious if at the longer rope length it makes as much of a diff?
Vapor pro 2017
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Comments

  • Mike GileMike Gile Posts: 217 Solid Baller
    I'd say yes on a couple levels. As the rope gets shorter there is less room for error so the adjustments have more of an effect. Also the shorter line skier is more in tune to what the adjustments do.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    It's my opinion that as the rope gets shorter and skills become more refined then adjustment becomes much more critical. A 28 off skier needs their ski set up correctly but I would strongly discourage that skier from spending much time super fine tuning.

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  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 874 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Ski set up matters for everyone at all levels. But most 38 skiers are more intune with their gear than 28 skiers. But I don’t think this means if you are a 28 skier you don’t have to be on top of your set up.
    6ballsscotchipmanaupatkingSkiJay
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 639 Crazy Baller
    What about hang overs? Kidding............... :)
    Vapor pro 2017
    eleeski
  • ColeGiacopuzziColeGiacopuzzi Posts: 344 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @Horton and @bishop8950 couldn't of said it any better I agree 100%....like you were saying though if your numbers are a tid bit off from perfect, don't stress.
    Cole Giacopuzzi • Radar Skis
    cragginshredMattP
  • spicolispicoli Posts: 109 Baller
    I've skied at that level all my life you know good 28s and if everything's good 32s just think its my limitation but always tying to get more anyway still have fun
    I feel all my adjustments ,I can go from Struggling with space to wow what a difference much easier early and wide






    Than_BoganeleeskiaupatkingGloersen
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 639 Crazy Baller
    For me I think moving the boots up or back is going to be a bigger deal as far as how much it affects the nuances of my pass, edge changes or where I am riding the ski.

    That being said I did move my wing from my norm and the suggested 9* to 8* for colder water per Jay and others.

    Vapor pro 2017
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,620 Mega Baller
    Boot position is probably more important for almost everyone.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    cragginshredbishop8950Wish
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 874 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @horton and I posted very similarly at the same time. Scary
  • bkreisbkreis Posts: 230 Baller
    It's important to understand what to do or try to setup to help your skill set. the GOAT told me once, "I'm going to move your back foot one hole back to make it easier for you to stay stacked through the gate." He firmly believed in making a setup that works for the individual in order to work on better skills without being punished.
    MattP
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 315 Solid Baller
    edited October 27
    I think its possible that the speed moving through the water makes setup changes more noticeable. We all know that even at same boat speed, a shorter line skier moves faster through the water than long line. Faster speed makes more difference in setup than slower speed, so short line will notice more difference than long line.
    Wish
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,034 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    You are all wrong! Setup matters so much to the developing skier. The top skiers can ski anything.

    Before my hip, I could run passes on anything. OK, I wasn't getting into 38 too often and only on my best practice days - but I did ski some weird stuff. I would make huge changes to setups. The effects were surprisingly little on my buoy count.

    After the hip problems, everything has to be right to get me to make a pass. Ski and binding variables are much harder to deal with now - despite slower speeds and longer rope lengths. (I am working at it and hopefully get back to where it's the skier, not the ski.)

    I judged MM at Imperial a couple weeks ago. Every one of those guys started out beautifully smooth (where they could clearly notice minor changes). But by the last couple passes, the skiing was really ragged and on the edge. There was no finesse or ski feel - it was pure athleticism and determination. No stinkin' fin setting was going to keep them from the pass.

    Eric
    scotchipmanGloersen
  • scotchipmanscotchipman Posts: 3,654
    Just because short line skiers are more experienced and more intune with their gear than long line skiers does not mean they can benefit more. In general (not always) short line skiers ski more technically correct than long line skiers so turning to fin adjustments "seems" more beneficial. If you are a long line skier with good technique that is struggling then a fin adjustment could be very beneficial. Normally (not always) long line skiers do not ski as technically correct as short line skiers so changing their technique is usually a better first step than jumping to fin adjustments.
    - President of the Utah Water Ski Club
    - Crypto Investing pays for my water ski addiction
    eleeskibkreis
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,145 Crazy Baller
    I couldn't get past "C hair". What are we talking about?
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • CamCam Posts: 272 Baller
    I set my fins up stock for years and was stuck at running 28 off a handful of times a year until I did a demo day with Andy who set my fin up for me and I then ran more 28's in the next 2 weeks than I had in my life and 32 went down the following year.
    So yes I would say at 22 through 32 we still need good fin settings, that is why I pester @AdamCord all the time for my Denali settings as I have had the experience of the difference it can make, just wish I could understand how it works.
    WishMISkierlpskier
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 516 Solid Baller
    I'm a very low-level skier -- still don't run all my passes at -15/34mph. I bought a new 2017 Radar Senate Graphite a few weeks ago and didn't do anything to the fin for the first six or seven sets. I then decided to measure it and found that it was substantially different than recommended "stock" settings. For example, I had to move the fin forward about a quarter inch to get the recommended DFT. Granted, I didn't make these changes between sets on the same day, but I couldn't feel any difference in the performance of the ski the next time I used it a few days later (note: I also did not put the wing back on). Well, I probably did feel a difference, but I never know if changes in performance are from my own inconsistent technique or from something else.

    Regardless, I figure I should set my fin to stock settings so that I am at least not developing technique needed to counteract wacky fin settings.
    ScottScott
  • pregompregom Posts: 66 Baller
    @TallSkinnyGuy I too am still a very low-low-low level skier. I set the fin of my Senate to stock and took the wing out, based on the recommendation of other skiers in my club. Have you noticed a difference? Now I put the wing back and tomorrow I'm going to see what I feel. The only other adjustment I have played with is boot position, where I moved my front boot and RTP one notch forward. That did make a difference, I think. I feel I need to develop my technique by a lot before I can play with deep/short vs shallow/long settings. In my humble opinion I think both @Horton and @eleeski are correct - Freddie Winter, Nate Smith and all the other elite skiers are like Formula 1 drivers and they push themselves and their equipment to the limits of physics at very short rope lengths. Skiers in the -22/28 range are still at their own limits, so settings are important for both. If Nate or Freddie run a pass at -22 it's like a walk in the park for them.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,770 Mega Baller
    The difference to me is that the 38 skier is going to be very consistent and won't make a lot of the typical form breaks that a 28 skier does, so should by elimination, feel and sense more going on with the ski that is good or bad, and not caused by them.
    DanEbf`
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    The answer to the question posed by @cragginshred is yes, a -38 skier will "FEEL" fin changes more than a -28 skier—IF all else is constant. If the -28 skier is doing a lot more skiing than the -38 skier, I'd bet on the -28 skier feeling smaller changes.

    Now if the question was do fin changes matter more to a -38 skier than to a -28 skier, I'd say no. I've had 10 year old kids skiing at 28 mph instantly pick up a full pass or two in one day when I've fixes their often horrid setups.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... because understanding is better than memorizing
    BG1MattPALPJrbf`
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,818 Mega Baller
    @jimbrake Would “RCH” make it clearer?
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 121 Baller
    @lpskier RCH is a US Navy term that I learned on my first ship.
  • pregompregom Posts: 66 Baller
    @lpskier when all else fails, there is always google... :wink:
    wolfgang
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,818 Mega Baller
    This digression reminds me: What do Brooklyn and control-top pantyhose have in common?
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 647 Crazy Baller
    Vlacke bos
    stå løpet ut
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,526 Administrator
    @skijay crap setups hurt a huge % of the skiing population but do you agree the .003 tweaks mean a lot more to a 38 off skier then a 28 off skier?

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Connelly / DBSkis /   Denali / Eden Ski Lake  / Goode / HO Syndicate / MasterCraft / Masterline

    O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf / PTM Edge / Stokes / Reflex / Radar / Wakeye

    ScottScott
  • auskierauskier Posts: 439 Baller
    I am a into 35 off skier, and can relate to some of the points raised here. Having tried 6+ high end skis in recent years the ski dictated a lot about how much I felt with it when it came to changes. The ski I rode this weekend, I made a .020 DFT change and felt a small difference and same score. On my regular ski, a .010 DFT change the wrong way would have me drop a pass or more.
    Toby Daff
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,150 Mega Baller
    @Horton Yes, smaller fin changes make a bigger difference to -38 skiers than to -28 skiers.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... because understanding is better than memorizing
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 1,818 Mega Baller
    edited October 30
    @Gloersen You are correct, sir. Vlacke Bos= Flatbush, for those of us that think in the English language. Give the man a donut.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
    Lovell
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 647 Crazy Baller
    @lpskier - and a cup of coffee...
    What kind of animals can one find near Flatbush?
    Will be there Friday, tuning the fin for -38 rather than -28, preferably.
    stå løpet ut
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