GUT Gate Video Walkthrough

AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
We've been meaning to get this and other videos done for a while. It's winter so that means there is a little more time to do these things, so hopefully we will get a few more videos like this done soon. This one covers the gate only, so there's plenty more to talk about.

I did my best to keep it foot forward non specific, although I'm a righty. Feel free to ask questions and we'll do our best to answer. If you go to the page on the Denali website HERE the bullet points from this video are listed. It would be worth reading over those as you watch the video to help keep everything clear. There are lots of different ways to do a gate, and this is just one of them, but there's no question that if you can do this you can count on back-siding one ball a lot.


ToddAdchristmanJayprodtmandjulesThan_BoganVONMANlazznWishMISkierBruce_Butterfieldskibug6ballsskialexMarcoKellen417DekePSMMuskokaKyaussiemcAlvin_Neff
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Comments

  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 661 Crazy Baller
    I love this. Thank you. Particularly eye-opening is the commentary on how progressive the turn-in is. My skiing is very symptomatic of an early dig-in and this is the best explanation I've ever heard on how/why to not do that.
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 520 Solid Baller
    I watched a video by the Wilson brothers a couple years ago in which they were commenting on a few different skiers and pointing out things they needed to change. In that video they stressed keeping the hands low during turn-in and not letting them rise up and disconnect from the body (I tried but failed this morning to find that video). I've been trying to do that ever since even though it feels quite unnatural to me. Your video and instruction suggests the opposite -- raising the handle up away from the body during turn in. Is this just a difference in styles or is it an actual technique philosophy difference? Or maybe the thinking on this technique has changed since that Wilson video was made?
  • JayproJaypro Posts: 102 Baller
    Thanks @AdamCord !
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @TallSkinnyGuy I'm not sure why they would have been coaching that. I also have tried that before with no success.

    Reaching with the handle like this only works if you first make an effort to keep the handle close to your body in the glide. Then when you reach you are letting the boat get further ahead of you. In a way this is like lengthening your runway into the pulling position. You are actively creating a large gap between the handle and your hips, and you then progressively ski back under the handle so that when you get to centerline, your hips are close to the handle again.

    I went ahead and uploaded this pass too so you can just watch the whole gate without it stopping every 3 frames.

  • ColeGiacopuzziColeGiacopuzzi Posts: 346 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited December 1
    @TallSkinnyGuy I know exactly what video you're talking about, I think you have it twisted a bit though, I have skied a bunch with Brooks and KC and have worked on that exact thing You and Adam are talking about a few years ago. He just explains we don't want to lead with our shoulders and having our ski behind us, because we're building speed and loading the rope from too wide of a point. Like @AdamCord said reaching with the handle allows the ski to roll out and underneath our feet easier, so we're in a balanced position over our ski.

    Stellar gate and pass @AdamCord

    KC talks about it when he skis at 2:46.

    Cole Giacopuzzi • Radar Skis
  • mbabiashmbabiash Posts: 298 Baller
    @AdamCord would you say CP’s gate fits in with your GUT gate theory?
    ToddA
  • TallSkinnyGuyTallSkinnyGuy Posts: 520 Solid Baller
    Thanks @ColeGiacopuzzi, that is the exact video I was talking about. He particularly mentions "giving the handle back to the boat" at turn-in as a bad thing with the second and last skier. Perhaps my novice skier mind took that too literally without a full understanding of what the advice was intending to accomplish.
    ColeGiacopuzzi
  • jhughesjhughes Posts: 661 Crazy Baller
    edited December 1
    I've also heard overwhelming advice to not let the arms up in the turn-in from many credible sources over the years. However, it never felt natural to me to not let the arms come up to initiate the turn-in. Glad to see it coming back into style, ha.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,632 Mega Baller
    Wow. I think I just understood the difference between line load and ski pressure for the first time in my life!!

    I feel like I could go to a GUT seminar on those 10 seconds before entering the gates, every week for the rest of my life, and learn something every time!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    ToddA
  • Lake3Lake3 Posts: 15 Baller
    Thanks for your efforts @AdamCord.
    ToddA
  • ToddAToddA Posts: 55 Baller
    Awesome @AdamCord ! Great insight and clear instructions! Love it!
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited December 2
    @mbabiash CP does a few things a little different on the pullout, but everything after that is basically the model for GUT.
    ToddA
  • WishWish Posts: 6,769 Mega Baller
    "GUT TV" .......love it ...and learned a few new things that I didn't catch before. Thanks @AdamCord
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,496 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    GREAT stuff. Clearly I need the more aggressive pull out to high. Have always been a proponent of letting the hands in first but love the vertical handle tip prior to that moment. Also love the idea of letting the body come in without turning the ski...the sprinter analogy...awesome. Also love the concept of energy build only between the 45's, so to speak.
    Would also love the future instruct on the "pre-turn". I do believe the wash to the ball is the hardest part to do right...continuing to high but on the inside edge.
    I think when most of us go inside edge we lose outbound or even "up bound" meaning up the boat. To counter this we pull longer or pull toward shore hoping to gain the necessary width we are about to give up by not staying connected...in fact can't stay connected after pulling for shore. I'm guilty as hell. Works fine til the line is short.
    Thanks for the vidoe @AdamCord.

    I need to remember to watch this in the spring!
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    GaryWilkinson
  • Bill22Bill22 Posts: 1,158 Crazy Baller
    Thank you for the detailed video.
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @6balls what I see with most people isn’t that they lose outbound direction by rolling to the inside edge coming through center, it’s that they give up that strong position against the boat. This is why it’s important to separate in your mind ski load and line load. This is where you end up with the “reverse c” type position that is especially prominent with Nate. His body position is still strong to handle the high line load, but the ski is on the inside edge and starting to turn down course.
    6ballssgregg
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,496 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited December 2
    @AdamCord thank you. I tend not to get inside edge thru center feeling like I need to keep pulling to shore, this separates the handle and takes away that strong position...like I'm using ski load to keep line load until finally unloading both at the same time--not good at 38. The idea of separation of the two (line and ski load) is very cool appreciate your insights very much.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • WishWish Posts: 6,769 Mega Baller
    Line load ....yes. Ski load ....no. Reverse C.

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    MISkier6ballsFraser
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @Kellen417 and others thanks for the feedback. Our goal with this is to get enough articles and videos done that maybe we can try and remove all the ambiguity and confusion that's out there is water ski technique theory. I've heard a lot of BS over the years, and it's frustrating.

    Maybe if people can ask questions or just list the specific things you want explained in more detail, that will help us to know what is highest priority? We recently got some good overhead video too so I'm looking forward to using that in a video.
    Kellen417
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,575
    edited December 4
    @AdamCord .... Thank you for addressing Line Pressure vs Ski Pressure. The Reverse C has been something I have worked on for over 3 seasons now. Still don't have it totally correct. Could you please address what your FEELING to accomplish this correctly. I understand it's releasing ski pressure while maintaining line pressure. Question is "HOW" to do that correctly.....THX, ED

    PS: When I release the ski pressure, but still maintain the upper body lean, it feels as if I loose at least 50% of the line pressure at the same time. Is this normal ???

    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • WishWish Posts: 6,769 Mega Baller
    What @Ed_Johnson said.... how?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,051 Mega Baller
    @AdamCord great analogy. I have never thought about the “carousel”, but that makes a lot of sense.
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    AdamCord
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,575
    edited December 5
    @AdamCord ... Thanks, I feel better now, since I am doing it similar to you. I always thought I was missing something when the line pressure decreased with the unweighting of the ski.
    Agree with the freeskiing also. As an example, if I overturn one or two ball at 35 or 38, I always free ski the rest of the course practicing, rather than just waste the rest of the pass holding on behind the boat. I find this a great experimental time, and get to see the results on video later. I continue to learn a lot by doing that.

    Thanks again for the explanation...ED

    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
    AdamCord
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,209 Crazy Baller
    @Ed_Johnson -from the old west coast video we learned that the rope pressure before the wake can build up near 600 lbs. if your using your body mass after the wake to maintain pressure on the rope but you feel its not enough i recommend introducing more jelly donuts into your diet. that approach seems to be working for me.
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,575
    edited December 5
    @mwetskier ... I've been ahead of you on that approach to long and need to start going the other way. I'm already on a 68" ski. Saw a 69.5" Pro-Built at Performance the other day, and that thing looked like you could put a motor on it. I really don't want to be headed in that direction.

    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • AdamCordAdamCord Posts: 484 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    edited December 5
    @Ed_Johnson the force in the line due to centrifugal force can be calculated as mass times speed squared divided by the radius...(mv^2)/r. So speed is a lot more important than weight when it comes to load in the line coming off the 2nd wake. When I'm skiing well I don't feel a noticeable drop in load as this transition happens, because the transition also coincides with my max rotational speed around the pylon.

    So if you are feeling a huge drop in load, I'd say you need to do a better job of creating speed into the wakes.

    There is another part to this, which is Zero Off. If I was progressive in loading the line and building speed into center, I should be get max response from ZO right as I'm transitioning to the new edge. If my body position is good, then I welcome that throttle because it'll whip me around the pylon and I'll be wide and early. If I got overloaded too early, the ZO probably responded early and could already be letting up as I cross into the whitewash. That could be part of what you are feeling.

    That additional throttle that happens right during this transition is why I think many people (including me) struggled making the transition to ZO. You have to take a different approach with ZO.
    dchristman
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,575
    @AdamCord .... Thank you, that all makes total sense, and I agree with you 100% when it comes to Zero Off. I try very hard to load ZO before it loads me, and use the power of ZO for the cast out. It's a great feeling when that works out right.

    You have clarified a lot of what I am feeling and what I should be feeling, and I thank you for that.....ED
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
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