Does the use of "Clincher" type gloves lead to injury and/or cervical disc herniation?

BoozeBooze Posts: 368 Solid Baller

Does the use of "Clincher" type gloves lead to injury and/or cervical disc herniation? 66 votes

I believe so
13%
DekeskiinxsIlivetoskiMSskihartozskidvskierGarScottScott 9 votes
I do not believe so
71%
HortoneleeskiISP6ballskibugdislandLZywicki1Chef23PSMBoneHeadThan_BoganGarnEd_Johnsonwaterskigirlphatty5693Jody_SealUWSkierjayskilundberg6ballswawaskr 47 votes
Need more data to determine
15%
Killerjimbrakedavid_skiJonBswardcoRAWSkiCentalbertabradWoodySkierLobonator 10 votes
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Comments

  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,785 Infinite Pandas
    I do not believe so
    Used them for decades with no serious problems. Coupled with a Goode vest, they make skiing with a bad back possible.

    Do your ab work and don't blame the gloves.

    Eric
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,641
    edited July 2018
    I believe so
    Almost certainly did some damage to my wrist and I lost feeling in my little finger which took a few months to return. Using Stokes gloves now and a large diameter handle. I expect this injury was pretty rare and I would use them again if I had too.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski - KD Platinum

  • KRoundyKRoundy Posts: 244 Baller
    I do not believe so
    I've used them for years with no issues that I believe have been caused by the gloves. Had an elbow issue that moving to a slightly larger diameter handle has cleared right up.
  • KillerKiller Posts: 359 ★★★★Quad Panda Award Recipient ★★★★
    Need more data to determine
    Have used them off and on for years, mostly radar vice version. I have the new ones that feel great but the dowel would need to be cut to remove. I've removed dowel on other vice and think II prefe them out.

    I've hung up a few times so do believe they can cause injury of some kind, definitely not as safe as strapless.. Not certain how severe an injury and Nothing significant on my end.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,676 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 2018
    Decades as well. What causes injury is not paying attention to your own limits and knowing when to let go. You could easily blame this on handle diameter or one with a tractor grip as well or perhaps you had the wrong size glove. Way way to many variables to blame injury on a glove no matter what the design. Does a slower ski with higher drag cause lower back problems?. Same argument. Clinchers are not made to get you extra buoy count or make you super man. The only function is to reduce grip fatigue. Seen or used in any other manner that results in injury is the fault of the skier in my opinion. Having used them since the 90s, and all versions with 0 issues, I think I can speak from experience. Best safety gear you have is what's between your ears. Listen to that ah-oh feeling and let go.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    ISP6ballDekeOldboyIIConor
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,006
    I do not believe so
    Agree with @Wish .. been on every brand since the 90's. Only problem ever was the outside hand getting hung up in the pre-turn. Once I switched to handles with the curved ends, never had that problem again. Currently use Radar Vice and Love them.
    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
    ISP6ballWishOne_Ski
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,839 Mega Baller
    I do not believe so
    I have been on them for close to 10 years and never hung up on them or had a back problem as a result.
    Mark Shaffer
  • hoppyhoppy Posts: 11 Baller
    I do not believe so
    15 years ago I read about shortliners getting hung up on them, so was sceptical, but gave them a try, now been using them for 15years.
    Only injury I've had was quite painful and long lasting tendon strain in middle and index fingers when I borrowed someones XL gloves (I'm a medium) .
  • skihartskihart Posts: 477 Solid Baller
    I believe so
    This is a repost of mine from another clincher post from a couple of years ago.
    I burned my pro locks...

    Labor Day weekend two years ago. I was running up the line at 28 off. I had the pass but I was a little late into ball 5. Pulled too long and ripped out a huge turn dropping my inside shoulder. Had slack and threw away the handle. Same as @Alex38 the clinchers didn't release but my strap didn't break. I got yanked right out of the water and my hand went instantly numb. I figured it was either my shoulder, elbow or wrist that had dislocated. Lay there in the water till the boat came around and surprisingly everything still seemed to be in one piece. Thanked my lucked stars took some Advil and was in pain for days. A couple of days later when I started using my arm again I realized that my right bicep was just flopping around on my arm and I had no use of it. Figured I pulled an @Horton and tore a tendon....end of season. After seeing the Doc and looking deeper into it we realized I had a musculcutaneous nerve injury. Somewhere between my shoulder and bicep the nerve had been damaged or torn from the muscle. The doctor said that with any luck the nerve could possibly regenerate but recovery would be slow if at all. Months go by and no change. Tested again and still no change. Nine months after the fall my Doc says that chances are slim that it will come back on its own and that surgery would be possible but a long shot. He sends me for one more sets of EMG testing to see if there is any change. Well sure enough after nine months they get a signal that confirms that indeed the nerve is regenerating. The Doctor was shocked that it was actually coming back after that long and that the break must have been pretty darn big. Tells me that I am a very luck guy and asks if I had burned the gloves yet.....

    In truth I really liked the clinchers and even remember thinking that I needed to order another pair on the starting dock just before the injury. They are Just Not Worth The Risk though. With all the other potential injuries possible in this sport why add this to the mix when you don't have to? I will never use them EVER again.

    I think @Andre had a bad experience with them as well from what i can remember.

  • WishWish Posts: 7,676 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 2018
    @skihart sorry for your injury that sounds horrible. There's been more then one torn bicep mentioned on this site without the use of clincher style gloves. I actually saw one happen at a tournament where we tend to go for it. I'm not seeing or hearing a ton of evidence along with poll results that suggests clinchers are more dangerous. Before clinchers and in my young and stubid days, I got pissed after a crapy pass and with my right hand, threw the handle in anger to the to the left while skiing behind the boat straight down the lake. Could not have been more of a benign and intentional move on my part. Spent the next 5 days unable to move my neck to the point where I had to prop a pillow under my chin and hold the pillow with my arms just to go from the bed to the bathroom. Freak accidents happen. Your right, other potential injuries can occurr at any moment and can be blamed on gear. I think this thread brings good awareness as to what clinchers are used for ...grip fatigue reduction which some or a lot of folks need to stay in the game. But that also comes with the awareness that these are NOT designed to boost your confidence in hanging on to what you should not. Just like Reflex bindings are not to be used without a very good understanding of how to set them up and maintain them. Or Radar boots being cinched to tight..what's to tight? If you cant figure those out, you should go back to old school rubber bindings. But the Reflex and Radar bindings should not be trashed.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    GaryWilkinson
  • DekeDeke Posts: 375 Baller
    edited July 2018
    I believe so
    I agree with what @Wish and others have said about knowing your limits and being in shape. But I'm going the other way with my vote because they can contribute to longer term injuries if you ignore these things.

    I am not a shortline skier but have used these gloves over the years off and on with the dowel removed. Never had a hangup. They are absolutely "camp savers"! But I believe that all of the arm muscles need to work together to avoid injury in the long run and you are not doing yourself any favors by only using clincher gloves all of the time.

    BTW, I miss the handle more often with them as opposed to others who cannot release.
  • wawaskrwawaskr Posts: 190 Baller
    I do not believe so
    I have had a C5-C6 cervical disc herniation and have never used clinchers. I have always used kevlars. I personally believe your genetic makeup plays quite a percentage in the possibility of this happening.....of course there is age, past damage/overuse, etc.....
    Matt
  • GarnGarn Posts: 459 Crazy Baller
    I do not believe so
    I've been using them for 10+ years and have never had a problem. I never understood why someone would want to take the dowels out. But on my new Radar gloves the dowels just fell out. I can't tell any difference with them out as when I had them in. And one positive thing I noticed with them out is every now and then when I had the dowels in I would miss the handle because the dowel would hit the handle as my hand was coming back to the handle. It didn't happen to often but it did happen. That never happens now.
    Wish
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,608 Mega Baller
    I do not believe so
    I just started using a clincher (1) on right hand. with out dowel. It is like strapping on
    15 HP!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,006
    I do not believe so
    I cannot stress enough the safety aspect of using a Handle, such as the Masterline ERGO, with the curved ends, when using Clinchers. If have been using these type handles with Clinchers for the last 8 years and never had one hang-up or miss grab.
    Also, I believe these handles are safer as far as a hand or arm, or even your head catching in them. I still use a handle guard though.
    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
  • WishWish Posts: 7,676 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Deke I wonder if the same thing could be said for Reflex style bindings vs Wiley...... I believe that all of the leg/foot muscles need to work together to avoid injury in the long run and you are not doing yourself any favors by only using Reflex bindings all of the time.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,785 Infinite Pandas
    I do not believe so
    I use a rubber band made from a bike tire tube to keep the webbing attached to my fingers. Others use Orings. I’ve used electrical tape in a pinch. I’ve never had a problem releasing with this mod. Obviously there is a reason I made this mod...

    Eric
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,839 Mega Baller
    I do not believe so
    I have never had a problem releasing. I wear my gloves really tight generally either small or mediums which I think helps not have extra material and as soon as I open my hand the strap straightens right out.

    I wear them because they protect my hands. I have wimpy hands and get a ton of blisters. The clinchers let me ski more without my hands tearing apart (happens even using duct tape and glove liners).
    Mark Shaffer
    gsm_peterWish
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,265 Mega Baller
    Need more data to determine
    For me they lead to a lot of broken ropes and people in the boat being pissed.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
    JC McCavit
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 753 Crazy Baller
    I believe so
    I don't have any experience with...... But, the logic tells me that if I take too much load out of a turn, I want the limits of my grip to determine whether I can hang on or not, not an artificial device such as a dowel increasing my grip capabilities. Seems to me you then run too much potential to overload other parts of your body (bicep, back, etc) even though it may lessen the load during normal conditions reducing forearm fatigue or tendinitis etc. I don't see that the clinchers with dowel taken out would have any increased risk.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,785 Infinite Pandas
    I do not believe so
    ALL gymnasts use a dowel grip. Some things are not possible without the best grip. Skiing is one of them. Take any advantages equipment can offer.

    Get strong to deal with effects. But remember, the loads to make 38 off are the same regardless of your glove. Always be strong!

    Eric
    OldboyIIWish
  • OldboyIIOldboyII Posts: 561 Solid Baller
    I do not believe so
    Clinchers allow me to pay more atention to techical details regardless ot hand fatigue.
    Although I have a feeling that I need go back to "normal" gloves from time to time just in order to feel more differences of load during different elements of pass.
  • DWDW Posts: 1,951 Mega Baller
    Clincher gloves have allowed someone I know simply the ability to go out and ski, a deep passion for that person, and due to that product she was able to participate in her favorite passion in life. In this case, a risk was well worth the reward. The joy delivered was infectious to more than just the skier.
    Ed_Johnson
  • DekeDeke Posts: 375 Baller
    I believe so
    The poll and the original post asked if we thought Clinchers can lead to injury. Many voters voted that they "don't believe so" but then went on to comment about modifications, handle designs, etc. to avoid getting caught. What's up with that?

    I have and do use them when I feel I need them, but I'm not going to fool myself that they that they can't cause injury.
    ScottScottskihart
  • JmoskiJmoski Posts: 288 Baller
    edited July 2018
    I do not believe so
    I skied many years with clinchers, I stopped because every once and a while the webbing that runs from the dowel to the wrist would get twisted on the re-grab coming out of the ball and screw up the pass.

    The positives for me is they helped prevent golfers elbow from setting in and like @Chef23 my hands don’t get chewed up as much.

    Can you get hurt with them - maybe, in a bad fall if you end up locked into the handle for an extra second I could see your shoulder could get torqued - but it seems less likely your back would take the hit.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,676 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 2018
    @Deke "can lead to" is what makes the poll invalid IMHO. We are in a sport where pushing ourselves to the limit (crashes included) is the norm. Pick any part of your gear that is directly connected to that concept and one could probably make a similar poll that whatever it is, can lead to a certain injury. Can you imagine if that was done repeatedly with all kinds of products used on a regular basis? I'm sure Horton wouldn't allow it. Perhaps manufacturers would start to reconsider making stuff for competition waterskiing. It amazes me that boots of all kinds and styles are still in existence with innovation still happening considering how often we hear of ankle injuries and the number of threads on the topic. There's gotta be a huge cost for companies to keep themselves from potentially being sued. There has to be some level of athlete responsibility here. I'm still not hearing evidence that clincher style gloves can lead to injury any more then ski boots (take your pick on which ones)...actually much less.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • j2nhj2nh Posts: 63 Baller
    I do not believe so
    I have used them for decades and never had a problem. I accept that my experience may or may not be representative of what could happen to me or anyone else tomorrow.

    I have been injured many times and almost always because I made the millisecond decision to push too hard when I should have skied away. One stupid ball in practice put me in the hospital for 5 days, and it wasn't during a tournament and it had nothing to do with my equipment.

    Know when to let up and ski again another day. Easy to say, hard to do for competitive, driven people.
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 368 Solid Baller
    I do not believe so
    Thanks everyone for their input or feedback.
    I've had alot of cervical issues over the years with two fusions, and now have more than one compromised disc. Luckily and knock on wood, the rest of my spine is totally healthy.
    I've used clinchers since the 80's and never had an injury related to a non-release incident.
    The impetus for me posting the poll is that some of my friends have insisted my disc issues are a direct result of using those gloves. They suggest that it is putting undue stress on my neck.
    I don't necessarily agree. I'm of the mindset that @eleeski stated. Grip is paramount, (and is not one of strengths)...and 38off loads aren't going to be less with normal gloves.
    And like @Chef23, I was constantly ripping the skin on my palms before.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,385 Mega Baller
    I do not believe so
    @Deke over gripping leads to injury.

    I would be comfortable stating that gloves in general would be statistically linked to injury stronger than clencher gloves vs basic gloves.
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