Compressed or Straight Legs?

twhispertwhisper Posts: 91 Open or 55K Rated Skier
I had a question on my training web site about whether it is better to ski with a compressed style or keep the legs straighter as the skier approaches the center line of the course. I looked at a few youtube videos...
jimbrakebkreisTexas6GC_ski_scrubandjulesktm300ballsohardChunkydz_skierchris55cragginshredEd_JohnsonbajaScottScottart90notchsunvalleylawBruce_ButterfieldHortonjipster43Southside_MikeJordanscotchipman
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Comments

  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,182
    Great observation, and contrary to what many believe to be optimal. Love it
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,728 Infinite Pandas
    Obviously locked straight legs is wrong. But these snapshots don't show what is really going on. They are compressed, yes. But they are pressing out of that compression with the most efficient leg power position possible.

    For the beginners I coach, it is important to not bend your legs to cross the wake! Do not use your knees as shock absorbers at the wake. Push to resist the wake.

    Bending your knees at the ball gives you much better control of the ski. Plus you can push out of the turn to better get the optimal body position.

    Rechecking the OP, I'm probably going to get a Panda now...

    Eric
    aupatking
  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 393 Baller
    Death to the categorical imperatives...
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,822 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Lots of people tell me to stand taller through the wakes, these guy's look fairly compressed to me, I have always thought that you can not take load with out some compression, interesting to see how Chris Parrish compares.

    "Just Give Me The Handle ! I Want To Ski !”

  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    personally, i think the best advice regarding compressed legs is identical to the instructions i once read on a tube of unguent - ' apply as needed".
    plus i also like using the word ' unguent '. it just sounds so retro. . .
    j2nhLanceHCookAndreskinut
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,822 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 2018
    @eleeski is there a difference between Pushing and Pressing I have been accused of pushing and told it takes angle away from me, I am happy when I push and lean, every time I try to use less effort as suggested I miss passes.
    Old school so not super efficient on the ski but trying to change my ways.

    "Just Give Me The Handle ! I Want To Ski !”

  • slowslow Posts: 341 Solid Baller
    Straighter legged skiers struggle more in poor water conditions in my opinion
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,211 Mega Baller
    edited July 2018
    [Redacted in light of further explanation above.]

    But, I still almost feel like you have to learn to really do it right with (relatively) straight legs before you have a hope of doing it right with compressed legs.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    OldboyIIBill22BoneHead
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,211 Mega Baller
    Btw, what stands out to me even more in those still shots is how much those skier's bodies are aligned perpendicular to the ski (creating the illusion that they are leaning forward). Freddie and Nate are extreme in that regard, but even the others are a helluva lot more over their skis than I ever am!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    ballsohardMayhemOldboyIIGaryWilkinson
  • DanoDano Posts: 110 Baller
    Check out the forward ankle flex common to all those pictures. Less pronounced with Chis Parrish's photo who is skiing with straighter legs. I would think it's much easier to attain a position resembling Parrish's than it is the others. It would also be interesting to know what line length those pictures are taken of, and if they have the same stance at longer lines?
  • twhispertwhisper Posts: 91 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    39 and 41 for each image
    Dano
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,323 Crazy Baller
    I think @Horton does good with this, as shown in his pic in the EVO review.
    HortonMickeyThompsonScottScott
  • cragginshredcragginshred Posts: 692 Crazy Baller
    Great thread! Straight seems to be more old school too? Or more of a personal style? I am shorter and the bent position seems to work for me
    Vapor pro 2017
  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,995
    Plus, the pics above are all heel side, which lends itself to being more easily compressed, even for us mere mortals.
    Bob Grizzi
  • BainessterBainesster Posts: 15 Baller
    I'd be interested in seeing if same form is shown at say 28 or 32 off, to me it looks like they are almost being forced into compressed positions because of the difficulty of pass
    DaveDjhughes
  • ski6jonesski6jones Posts: 874 Crazy Baller
    I think being compressed is a VERY advanced position. When i ski compressed i feel like i'm constantly modulatimg the load. When i try to ski tall i inevitably compress but it's not a goal. Maybe in the future but for now staying tall is what i want behimd the.boat.
    Carl Addington, Lakes of Katy, Texas
    HortonsunvalleylawMS
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 695 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2018
    I've heard the term 'compressed" used often. Many like to think of ankle bend but that doesn't really work for me, I can't feel ankle bend. My thought process to accomplish this is to push the knees forward while bending them, if knees go forward....then ankle bends. It also keeps your butt from hanging back. Different triggers to think about work for different people to make them feel what needs to be done. That compressed position is what I'm working toward.

    I like the way that particularly @twhisper knees are together. You can't have the knees that close without having good alignment.
  • DekeDeke Posts: 367 Baller
    Agree with you @ScottScott that there is a big difference between "compressed" and "squatting" that is completely lost on some people. Whatever it takes to get aligned for whatever phase of turn, load or transition is what is important. Sometimes what you perceive is not what you need.
    ScottScott
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,527 Administrator
    edited September 2018
    I think the problem with this conversation is that although compressed might be superior in the way that @twhisper describes only a handful of skiers on the planet can be compressed without their hips going back.

    I really really really hate disagreeing with @twhisper because I a firm believer in a meritocracy. In other words guys like me with a PB of a few at 39 - 34mph should generally shut up and listen to guys like TW who have a PB of a few at 41 - 36 mph.

    To clarify: in the above image of Parrish I would call that pretty straight legs.

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  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 695 Crazy Baller
    Straight vs compressed is relative. No one's knees are perfectly straight. Everyone's knees are bent to a degree, some more than others. What everyone's mind set going in is different, and different mindsets from one person to another can lead to different results. And what someone sees in another may be totally different than what that person is thinking. I see a compressed/bend knee position I would like to emulate in @Horton yet it's well know that he is thinking straight. This also depends on where in the course you are looking. There were pictures of some during the glide before gate turn in, I'm thinking of the position during a cross just before the wake.
  • bkreisbkreis Posts: 291 Baller
    knees and hips will change angles based on what the skier does, how much load is going to the ski vs upper body, and the ability to get to stay strong/stacked cross course.
    www.skyfitness.com
    MS
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,527 Administrator
    @bkreis I have zero idea what you are trying to say in your last post :- )

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,527 Administrator
    Is it warm enough to get back to arguing about skiing?

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,211 Mega Baller
    No. Outside my window it is 25. And that ain't Celsius. Nice try, though.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    jayskiwilecoyoteKeith Menard

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