OldGuysRuleOldGuysRule Posts: 81 Baller
Now that Nationals are over, I'm trying to come to terms with the new rule from USA Water Ski concerning Mens 8 speed. If I remember correctly at my advanced age, the maximum speed for Mens 8 will now go up to 32 miles per hour in order to be in agreement with the IWWF. I've been skiing 30 mph for a couple of years and now trying to decide whether to go 32 or stay at 30 and suffer a six buoy penalty. Any other Mens 8 skiers out there having this same dilemma?


  • AndreAndre Posts: 1,008 Crazy Baller
    Disclaimer: I' m men5.
    I think 32 is too fast for men 8.
    30 should be plenty fast. Falls are harder,more chance of injuries and it s more fun to shorten the line then to speed up.

    My 2 Canadian cents..
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 372 Solid Baller
    I'm in M8 and staying at 30.4 mph. No desire to ski 32.3 mph, it wouldn't be useful to me. They'll probably up the speed to 34 next year anyway to "thin the herd".
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,269 Crazy Baller
    You guys who have been in M8 for a couple of years or more have my sympathy. This year (2018) was my first year in M8 and knowing I would have to go back to 32, I just stayed there. If you think about it it was a strange setup anyway. M7 was the only Mens age division in AWSA to have a speed just for that one division. In other words, 34 M3-M6, 32 for M7 and then 30 for M8-M10. Ok, M11 is by itself also, but....
    Personally, I could never get a handle on 30. I guess I just lack the finer skills required for that speed. And yes, you'd better have some handle control to run 35 off at 30!
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,758 Mega Baller
    I don't recall but does zero based scoring apply at Regionals and Nationals? If it does apply just stay at 30 mph there is no real penalty unless you could run 32 off for example at 30 mph and 32 mph.

    I have been skiing 30 mph this year so far on a Radar Katana and it has been a lot of fun. I ran 32 off the other day for the first time and it was definitely not as hard on my body. Unfortunately I am 52 so I have a ways to go before I can be competitive in M8.
    Mark Shaffer
  • teammalibuteammalibu Posts: 726 Crazy Baller
    My wife went from 34 to 32 last year and now back to 34 this year wtf sense does that make!
    Mike Erb Cedar Ridge Canton Miss.
    Horton is my hero
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,361 Mega Baller
    I hear the jumpers like the increased speed.

    From what I hear, most current 30 mph M8 slalom skiers don’t want to go back up and a lot of the new crop of M8 skiers are glad not to go down. I only have a few years left at 34 and I know I’m already dreading 32.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 372 Solid Baller
    How'd you like to ski 36? Same thing as M8 going to 32.
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,269 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2018
    @lpskier my advice to some local skiers is "don't do it"! Don't slow down. I know age gets to all of us, but I can pin point my decline to when I slowed down. Oh yeah for the first few months I was knocking down 35 and getting a few ar 38, then winter arrived. By next spring I was back to mid 35 same place I was at 34. I have tried a few forays back at 34 and could get back into with some time. Just stay at 34, do a few set at 32 before tournaments to get the feel and go back to 34 on Monday.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • Drew_Wright_OBXtoFlDrew_Wright_OBXtoFl Posts: 24 Baller
    The great thing about today's boats and speed control is you can practice at any speed. I often just take some of the edge off and ski 33.6 or 33.8 Workin my way up to 34 mostly at 28 off and then drop it back to something in the middle for a 32 and 35 off attempt . But you do have to have a newer speed contric to do this but even the 2009 zero has this. The new Nautique actually gives you the time .33.6 is close to a perfect pass in tolerance pass before zero off
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,361 Mega Baller
    @dvskier I can still ski -28 and -32 at 36.
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 292 Solid Baller
    In five years this controversy will be all over and done with. Each M8 individual is different because we age individually (differently).
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 372 Solid Baller
    @lpskier I have no doubt you can probably run 38 @ 36 mph but some of us old guys are just getting into course and tournament skiing. I didn’t start tournaments until last year. I was shocked to find that max speed is now 32. I’ll continue to ski tournaments but unsure if I’ll ever get to the level you’re at though.
    Personally disappointed with the decision to increase the speed. I’ll get over it. It does make me apprehensive on what’s coming when I move to M9 though.
  • lcarneslcarnes Posts: 114 Solid Baller
    After I wrote this piece I came across this thread. We are talking about the same dilemma. It strikes me as another nail in the coffin for the sport of we keep making it harder for people to compete. In business, you raise prices when the demand is high. When demand falls, you find out what it takes to attract customers. Seems like skiing is "raising the prices" when demand is low.

    This is a damn hard sport. For people who start the sport young, going down in speed over the years is not a big deal. For someone like me who started in my mid-forties, climbing the mountain to my top speed was almost a deal killer. I wonder how many potential skiers we have lost?
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,361 Mega Baller
    Bear in mind that the speed change was to bring us in line with the international speeds for the same age groups. No one is trying to make it harder, they are trying to make it consistent. And no one is forcing you to go 32. With ZBS, you can continue to ski 30 if you prefer.

    @dvskier sadly no, I can’t run -38 at 36. Or 34 for that matter. But I’m still trying!
    John Wilkins- Si non pro sanguine quem ludus ne. #iskiconnelly
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 372 Solid Baller
    What's the speed for M9 in IWWF? Also I thought I joined the AWSA?
  • thagerthager Posts: 4,343 Mega Baller
    What's AWSA? We are under a new neutral all inclusive BS water sports moniker I think??
    Stir vigorously then leave!
  • XpropmanXpropman Posts: 12 Baller
    The reason to go to 32 mph is to align with world rules. OK. World rules say everyone over 65 goes 32 mph. So men’s 7-8-9-10 should all go 32 mph. I went to the rules committee and showed that only 1 of the top 18 M-8 skiers wanted to go 32 mph. But they still shoved it down are throats. World rules doesn’t have ZBS . Just wait the rules committee will screw this up some more.
  • wartwart Posts: 32 Baller

    Xpropman notes that 1 out of 18 wants to go 32mph. (Just a thought - isn’t the customer always right?)

    The reason to go 32mph is to align with the World. But how many in AWSA, at that age, ski in the World, as opposed only the USA?
    Maybe the 1 above?

    Help me out here, why was the speed increased?

    Anyway, I think this takes us to what Icarnes wrote... that is pushing skiers away.
    Oh, and click Icarnes “this piece.” Very well written for both the skier and those skiing with.

    On the hopeful side of “those skiing with”...
    Before I skied in tournaments, when I was M2 age, and learning the course, I skied at 34mph, and got endless grief, even when I would say M3 will be soon enough and I’ll be ready.
    Now I’m skiing 32mph way before I get to the age group, and no one has said anything other than, did you just make that pass!? So, there’s some “those skiing with” progress.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,758 Mega Baller
    If you don’t compete in World events just skie ZBS and stay at 30. No downside there. I think it makes sense to be in line with the rest of the world and have ZBS for those that don’t want to ski at 32.
    Mark Shaffer
  • XpropmanXpropman Posts: 12 Baller
    So why didn’t the rules committee change Men 9-10-11 to 32 mph? That would align us with world rules.
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 372 Solid Baller
    @Xpropman Standby for upcoming 2019 rules, they'll raise it to 32 for all males over 65.
  • EdbrazilEdbrazil Posts: 1,395 Historical Baller
    Some strange results from the alignment with the World Rules. I know a top M5 jumper who will have to go back into M4 next year, for one year, and then back to M5.
  • dbutcherdbutcher Posts: 292 Solid Baller
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules committee doesn't make AWSA rules. The AWSA national board (our elected representatives) does. The rules committee makes rule recommendations to the board. The board sometimes passes them, sometimes not. This M8 speed change rule has been in the works for over two years. The original request for it came from some M7/8 skiers who didn't want to slow down. There were hundreds of emails exchanged amongst M8 skiers, rules committee members, and board members. I am a last year M8 slalom skier who personally opposes the rule change, and I'm staying at 30. I have no interest in IWWF. However, a lot of people put a lot of thought, time, and effort into it before it was enacted. Rule changes always make some people happy and some not. Quality of life remains pretty much unchanged.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,319 Mega Baller
    ZBS is great
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,718 Infinite Pandas
    @lcarnes blog article was very relevant. Do what you will enjoy most! Wear socks with your sandals? With the ZBS rule, you can (ski your desired speed).

    I shortened below my max the last couple years. I will probably continue to do so in class C tournaments - because it's more fun! But I do have IWWF aspirations (this might get me another panda). So I'm spending some time at the max speed. It's a reasonable mix that is safe, fun yet pushes me.

    I'm not M8 yet (but the Xrays of my arthritic skeleton might resemble M8). But having the alignment with IWWF rules AND the lower speed option through AWSA ZBS scoring is as close to the best of both worlds as we can get.

    There are similar applications for other divisions as well which solve real IWWF problems that I've seen. This was carefully crafted for the maximum benefit of the diverse goals of the skiers.

  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,923
    I thought ZBS scoring only applied to Class C. Would you not have to ski at the required division speed at Regionals and Nationals to score ???
    Loving the new ZO Rev. S Plus Mode C3+
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,718 Infinite Pandas
    I'm pretty sure my scoring and placement at Regionals this year reflected my ZBS score (74.5 buoys = 2.5 at 22off 34mph after scoring 6 at 22off 32mph). I did not get an IWWF score (did not complete a 34mph pass).

    So it appears ZBS works at Regionals for an underspeed for rankings list and placement but not for IWWF scores. Sounds reasonable. But the better skiers did ski 34 and got those 6 buoys more than me for the same line length. I'm OK with that.

  • gsm_petergsm_peter Posts: 702 Crazy Baller
    My 2 cents.
    I still struggle to run 34 so this is more like a question.
    For me the fun starts at 31mph or 32.
    30 is more heavy on my body.

    Life is too short not to enjoy every day!
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 824 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2018
    @Ed_Johnson ZBS applies to all classes, but only in "C"s can a skier ski above division max (up to top speeds) and receive credit for buoys at the higher speed. Higher speeds can be selected in other class events but will only be scored at division max (slower speeds scored/ZBS matrix); Regional/Nats inclusive.
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