Lifting back heel excessively

JBBJBB Posts: 70 Baller
I have been transitioning to new equipment this season, new ski, new binding set-up, etc. in my efforts to try to adjust to the equipment (hard-shells) and improve, I am finding that I lift my back heel... A LOT. I am reaching out to you, the collective wisdom of BOS, and seek your advice.
One thing I am wondering, is should I switch to a double boot set-up or hybrid system to help me realize when my heel is going up, or is there a change to my binding set up that I should try out. Thanks again in advance

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,978 Administrator
    @jbb Generally speaking you should NEVER lift your heel. Both feet should be flat on the ski at all times.

    (Yes I know a few pro skiers lift their back heel in the pre turn but if you are not running 39 off you are likely not a good enough skier to even mess with this idea)

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,978 Administrator
    @jbb to answer your question differently - most often skiers lift their back heel when their back leg is too bent at the knee and when hips are back.

    You might want to read this https://www.ballofspray.com/home-page/news/54-basic-relaxed-position

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  • lazznlazzn Posts: 29 Baller
    edited September 2018
    Are you by chance duck footed? My right foot (I'm LFF) is worse on the duck footed thing than my left one, to the point where my ankle flexion is severely limited if it is completely straight. One of the reasons that I do not use toe plates is because most toe plates forced my right foot completely straight, and in order to compensate my heel would lift because there was no other option. I run double boots with a straight front foot and a little bit of rotational offset in the back foot (but not so much as to remove my foot from pressuring the centerline of the ski) and this solves my problems with respect to the heel lift thing.

    If you aren't duck footed and/or don't have an ankle flexion issue, it's probably a stance thing like @Horton said and it's probably best to not run any rotation of either foot.
    Wisconsin Waterski Team
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,888 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    When I come up over the top of my ski on the offside my rear heel is definitely high and to one side as I rotate, but I consciously make a effort to get both feet planted on the ski before the first wake.

    "Another Ball Bites The Dust”

  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 872 Crazy Baller
    edited September 2018
    basically no, if "excessive" heel lift; ditto @Horton
  • ScottScottScottScott Posts: 756 Crazy Baller
    edited September 2018
    I don't think there is ever a reason to switch TO a rear boot. I'm not sure the heel lift in itself is something to be concerned about, obviously you aren't intentionally doing it. Have you seen it on video, or do you feel it in different parts of the course? During the scramble of doing the course I really have no idea what my heel is doing. I am only aware that I lift a little in my glide before the gates while focusing on pushing hips forward and square. I think I'd be more concerned about other aspects of your position that may be causing the heel lift, possible some of those (such as squatting as horton mentioned) could result in excess heel lift. As usual, video or some still shots would be helpful seeing the whole position.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,844 Mega Baller
    Unless you have some serious mobility issues in your ankle and calf your rear foot should largely stay planted on the ski. This is particularly true behind the boat where it should always be firmly planted on the ski.

    I would say make sure that your feet are close enough together and that your can keep your rear heel down when you are standing on the ground. If you can't there will be no chance to keep your back heel down on the water.
    Mark Shaffer
    slow
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,978 Administrator
    I do see a lot of back heel lift through the wakes from skiers in the 15 to 28 off skill range. It is a BAD thing. It is typical that skiers who are in some level of squat to lift the back heel at the wakes.

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    RAWSkilazzn
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    edited September 2018
    to offer a couple of counter points, goode powershell bindings have a mechanism on their rear boots that allows heel lift against adjustable spring pressure.
    also, nate smith has been quoted as saying that at certain points during a pass (the pull i think) he is focused on having all his weight on the balls of both his feet, which would imply that he has *no* weight on his heels.
    ScottScott
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,978 Administrator
    @mwetskier yes Nate is the most efficient skier in the world. His center of mass is further forward than anyone else ever in the sport. Besides directly behind the boat he does often have his rear heel off the ski. 99.9999 9% of the rest of the skiing public is not in position to do what Nate does.

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    Calisdad57
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    just noting that there seem to be some exceptions as with all rules. me, i just do my best to keep both feet in close proximity to the ski until i get out the end of the course.
    Than_BoganScottScott
  • JBBJBB Posts: 70 Baller
    Thanks everyone for the input.
    @Horton - Thanks for the input... Though I dream of being a pro, however your suspensions are confirmed... I'm not that good :)) Sounds like i need to straighten my rear leg - any suggestions on how to break the bad habit? (I suppose that is why I am asking about a rear boot, to hold down my foot)
    @lazzn - yes, I am a bit duck footed (and a bit bow legged). I have turned out my RTP a bit to help compensate for that.
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,013 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited September 2018
    Most beginners are rear foot heavy...regardless of bindings it's coaching technique to get 'em on the front foot.
    Some coach "bend your knees" but if the back is bent they just fall out the back sometimes. I know @horton coaches straighten back leg, I tend to coach bend your FRONT knee. Having said that if my take doesn't work, I will use Horton's...or anyone elses idea re: getting someone on the front foot primarily.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,978 Administrator
    @6balls your PB is into 39. You have very advanced skills. 99.999% of the readers of this site do not. Most skiers who lift their back heel are hurting their skiing.

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  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,013 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @horton we agree.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • JBBJBB Posts: 70 Baller
    As a follow-up, I was able to snag a Reflex R-style, and take it for a couple runs in the 48F weather (though the water was 68...) and found that it took a bit of getting used to, it helped clamp things down, and triggered me to straighten my back leg instead of lifting my heel. Thank you everyone for your input.

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