+ Setting for Zero Off

ghutchghutch Posts: 67 Baller
Tried the plus setting a couple of weeks ago. RFF, 34 mph, 28-32 off, 215 lbs, 6' 3". Normally B2. Went to B2+. Liked it. Tried A2+. Liked it even better. Really could feel the boat whip me across to the other side and "stay" with me without feeling like it was running away. Anyone else give the plus setting a shot and have similar results? Again I never would have thought I would like more gas from ZO but it really felt good. Also have heard it will be feel pretty different from each boat manufacturer. B2+ may not feel the same behind a Nautique vs a MasterCraft vs a Malibu. Thoughts?
disland
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Comments

  • marknmarkn Posts: 169 Baller
    Are you referring to the + setting in new Rev S or the previous version?
  • MSMS Posts: 5,026 Mega Baller
    How about 1 setting for all
    Zero off the company SUCKS
    Shut up and ski
    UWSkierWeappaskierjpeyepeeler
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,322 Mega Baller
    @MS should we all ride the same ski with the same bindings too?

    Don’t get me wrong, I think we currently have a little too much going on in the boat with 9 settings with + variants getting you to 18, but I don’t have an issue with some level of flexibility. At the end of the day I think the number 1 factor is the skier, followed by getting the set up within reason of appropriate and having a good driver. Once those are squared away the setting might have an impact, and maybe it has a modest impact before that as well.
  • MSMS Posts: 5,026 Mega Baller
    edited October 2018
    @RazorRoss3 that is not the same. Every boat should feel the same. They have the ability to give us what we need but they don’t. The boats cost 70 flippen K. Charge another K and fix it. We need more skiers in the sport to compete and this is reason #1
    Shut up and ski
    skierjp9400
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,323 Crazy Baller
    @MS Why so shy?
    Tell us how you really feel...
    Bill22MSjimskieyepeeler
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,323 Crazy Baller
    Oh boy...that might have been a mistake. :)
    eleeskiMSbishop8950
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,728 Infinite Pandas
    @MS I'm not sure that I feel significant differences between boats. At least, no differences that aren't along the lines of wake differences. ZO seems to make the boats more consistent than ever.

    I might not slalom at a high level but I do enjoy it and ski quite a lot of tournaments. My skills are far more limiting than any boat variations.

    Don't force me to B2. I won't run a pass. I do need my options, A1 if I'm smooth and C3 when I'm scrappy (I'm stuck with C3).

    Eric
    MS
  • thagerthager Posts: 4,343 Mega Baller
    It's going to be a LONG winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(
    Stir vigorously then leave!
    dislandT_CA_B
  • MSMS Posts: 5,026 Mega Baller
    @eleeski it’s more engine to engine. Ski behind a 5.3 CC at your practice setting and then ski a big 6 or 6.2. It will feel out of sync.
    Instead of all this + crap, just give us a good feeling pull. If fat boy yanks or breaks forward hard at 2 ball, how about spreading out a recovery over the next 4 balls and God forbid allow a 16.98 at the end. The tollarance allows for it so why the punishment? Skiers that practice z box or PP would be better served and maybe they would sign up for events. I know lots of skiers that are held back due to this.
    I have it figured out but I’m sick of USAWS trying to increase membership and not demanding this simple change to assist in this process.
    Shut up and ski
    Deanoskiliquid deyepeelerski6jones
  • dvskierdvskier Posts: 383 Solid Baller
    @MS this is a very small sport in comparison with golf, tennis, etc. No one is getting rich off waterskiing from what I can see. At my level 15/22 off at 30.4 and 32.3 mph I can tell some difference but none of the different pulls I get cause me to ski poorly. That is all my own doing. After 30+ years of open water "Wally boy" skiing I set my sights on running the course at any speed/line length. Now I can run it but still want more.

    I totally understand the desire for a uniform pull at a given ZO setting. I'm sure you guys at 38 off and beyond pay dearly when the pull isn't uniform. There are so many variables on revert pass it seems impossible to achieve uniformity. Tailwind, ZO, glare, etc. Also as Adam Caldwell pointed out the Malibu TXI de rates when the intake air is over a certain point and you have a very difficult issue. In short I'm not sure that ZO can be made to feel universal across all brands.

    So that's my new guy impression of the ZO debacle.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,728 Infinite Pandas
    @MS The differences are real. But most skiers are able to adapt. I notice that skiers have a much more difficult time adapting from Stargazer or Zbox. Strangely, old PP Classic is the choice of many high level slalom skiers who transition well. My experiences with PP Classic are also very good (with the right driver). Perhaps the target for ZO should be the PP Classic pull (needs options because I like the switch).

    PP is working on their product. It's now much closer to ZO (thank you PP). If your complaint is that the bulk of the skiing population uses PP and struggles with ZO, at least PP is addressing that issue.

    I do totally agree that speed control should never try to make up time in the event of a hard pull (actually I interpret that as against the strictest reading of the rules). But I felt that most with Stargazer.

    I love ZO because it is magic for tricks. Easy and consistent. Straightforward to setup and drive. Totally removed the driving variable. Jump rerides are rare with ZO. It works better than anything else for my slalom. ZO might not be perfect but it's darn good.

    Eric

    @thager A Basin and Mt Rose opened today. Winter!
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,322 Mega Baller
    edited October 2018
    @MS I will yield that the engine change can be funky for sure, I don’t know if my scores change but I like the feel of the stronger engine.

    So your not as much against settings, you’re against the idea that the same setting feels different on different boats?
  • HockdogHockdog Posts: 163 Baller
    Perfect Pass.........6.5NG
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,728 Infinite Pandas
    My apologies for the thread drift. It's easy to drift when discussing incremental differences if ZO either rocks for you or you can't make it work at all. The small changes are dwarfed by a skier's personal ZO compatibility.

    Add the variable regarding whether my + setting is the same (or noticeably different if it's not) and the specifics of what we are trying to feel can get further lost.

    Actually the OP has a valid question. For me at C3+ I'm not sure. If I don't pull hard it seems similar to C3. It's unforgiving if I screw up but that could be me. Or my custom ski. Or experimental binding. I'm sticking with C3. But + might give B settings a feel more like C.

    Keep trying and I'll try to listen.

    Eric

    PS I trick on C3+ and love it.
  • skiinxsskiinxs Posts: 504 Crazy Baller
    I love the new + (version s). It doesn't punish me when I pull way too hard. You can hear it throttle a lot more when driving, but you don't feel it when skiing. It feels like it is much more in sync with you.
    MISkierBruce_Butterfield
  • ghutchghutch Posts: 67 Baller
    @MS I get it... your not a fan. Believe me..neither was I. I finally have to admit after skiing more behind ZO and working my butt off to improve, it has made me a better skier. Or at least my body position is a whole lot better and I can now take what ZO gives me (most of the time).
    @markn- not sure of the version. It is a 2016 MC. Just discovered the plus settings and since its the end of year I thought what the heck and gave them a try.
    I guess my real question for this thread is if anyone has experienced that much of a difference btwn boats. I would expect the 6.0 and 6.2s to respond stronger and faster possibly? I know there are some great skiers on here who feel this difference skiing behind different boats. I'm trying to figure this out before tournament season next year. I hate winter.....
  • GloersenGloersen Posts: 829 Crazy Baller
    @ghutch unless the '16 MC ZO has been upgraded to Rev S software (single puck required too), then it is Rev R. The "+" modes with Rev R will not feel at all the same as with the new Rev S. It'd be better to practice without "+" in that case.
    ghutchMS
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,237 Mega Baller
    New rev S plus is the real deal. If you dont try it your a fool
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
    scotchipmanjjackkrashMISkier
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 208 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    MS, I disagree with your ZO vendetta. Unless all boats have the same engine and wetted surface I want multiple settings. Without that ability the new Natique would be unskiable for me at 38 and 39. I am not likely to want the same pull as you or others.

    Have spent more than a casual role in the development of Accuski, analyzing radar plots and speed control algorithms, I was never impressed by the pull with Perfect Pass =hot gates and chasing the boat in tailwinds.

    Everyone is different but for 3 years i solely practiced behind PP and skied in tournaments without an issue, other than allways getting a better gate with ZO and easier tailwind passes.
  • MSMS Posts: 5,026 Mega Baller
    @JackQ so ZO does feel differant on each boat. Hmm
    Shut up and ski
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,345 Mega Baller
    At least it doesn't feel the same as Stargazer which was consistently total garbage on every boat and engine combination
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    thagerZman
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 208 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    MS, no each boat if different. In the long ago past everyone had similar 240hp V8, and less divergent hulls. You could put PP or Accuski on the newer boats and they still would feel different. I use B2 on all boats for last 5-7 years and only changed for the 2019 Nautique as it feels like there is nothing at the ball at 38 and beyond. Many other MM skiers feel the same. However the same engine and ZO in other boats feel fine, there is something quite different in the New Nautique.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,728 Infinite Pandas
    @MS Important insight you shared. If it doesn't feel right change something! Now we all know to try that. You just made ZO better.

    That's actually one of the great features of ZO. You can change settings during your set. You can optimize the pull for the rope length you are skiing. You can adjust for things like engine size, wind, temperature, salinity or any of the myriad variables a tournament might throw at you. Sounds like a good thing to me!

    Realistically, developing skiers won't notice subtle changes in ZO settings or boat or site variations. Advanced skiers should be able to get enough ZO time to know how to adjust. Like you figured out.

    Additionally, discussion of things like the + setting are important. Use + for smaller engine boats?

    Eric
    Dacon62
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,178 Mega Baller
    My question will always remain, why cant ZO use its own accelerometer functions to calibrate the boat/engine combos to feel properly. Ie. If B1 is supposed to look a certain way for the breadth and magnitude and timing of the response and a certain hull and engine isnt reacting enough... why not make it?
    MSadamhcaldwell
  • DragoDrago Posts: 1,345 Mega Baller
    edited October 2018
    This isn't exactly about the new + setting, but why do waterskiers expect to PB every set?
    SR SL Judge & Driver (“a driver who is super late on the wheel and is out of sync”)
    mcskier41
  • kurtkurt Posts: 89 Baller
    @drago it isnt i expect a pb, but i at least expect to ski close to my average.
    The fact the first 19 nautique i skied behind was at states and the second was at regionals was garbage.
    It was so different at the ball, subsequently i did not go to nationals.
    I felt as if that boat was shoved down our throats. The first boat delivered to our area days before states.
    Again garbage if it doesnt feel the same or close.
    billy's puddle swerving around the frogs
    MISkieradamhcaldwell
  • MSMS Posts: 5,026 Mega Baller
    I wonder if simple letter change would have worked for @kurt?
    Shut up and ski
    skiinxs

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