Symetrical Slalom Course

BoatmanBoatman Posts: 17 Baller
A few years ago there was some talk of symetrical slalom courses where you could start your pass from either side depending on personal preference. This seems logical to me. Any thoughts?


  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,919 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Comment deleted

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,353 Mega Baller
    It is my sworn duty as a Math Nerd to point out that the current course is radially symmetric. If you think of a point on the centerline between gate 3 and gate 4, then for every ball in the course there is another one (of the same type) that is exactly reflected across that point.

    As far as having symmetry about the boat path line, I think that would be a ton of effort for little-to-no gain. Both LFF and RFF skiers have been very successful over the years.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Tom351Tom351 Posts: 105 Baller
    I don't think it should be done- BUT the way to do it would be similar to an 8-buoy course setup (with an extra set of gates) - so rather than having turn balls on each side at each boat guide a skier that is skiing the mirrored course would just enter the course at a different point.
  • Orlando76Orlando76 Posts: 999 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Oh yay, more buoys. I have a hard enough time figuring which ones to use at KLP’s. Would be more fair I guess if you feel RFF is at a disadvantage.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,507 Mega Baller
    Hard enough to have good courses with the current set up. I have both foot forward in my family. I'm not installing a 12 ball portable.
  • lpskierlpskier Posts: 2,471 Mega Baller
    Such a couse might create a problem with short lakes depending on how it is configured. If the 55s and gates were left the same and the reverse buoys were installed opposite their counterparts, there would be no change in length. On the other hand, adding an extra six buoys to a permitted course on public water could be a permit modification nightmare.
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  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,632 Mega Baller
    I dont see why it could not be implemented on existing course's that could facilitate this.
    Also should be allowed in competition where sites can facilitate.
    Being left foot forward my preference would be to go from right to left if available.

    Funny, in a tournament two years ago at milton I was not feeling the bouy ideology and it was morning round. I pulled out to the right and ripped off 6 free ski turns going in the gate and out the gate.... got to the end and the judge was laughing and said he did not know how to score that. I responded gates with big spray..
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,507 Mega Baller
    @Jody_Seal - wouldn't that be a bigger disparity? If you were for instance skiing at your home site that was a 12 ball symmetrical course and you get to a tournament on a site with turn islands and a hard right hand dog leg into the gates, even if they could have symmetrical turn balls you're going to be trying to be ready on the inside of the turn coming into the 55's and pulling out against the counter turn of the boat.

    Other lakes simply have docks, jump courses, vegetation or other obstacles that make the symmetrical course problematic so I would assume you would still rather practice the standard course just to ensure you had the same set up everywhere.

    Although maybe the real solution is to allow "opposite" courses to be installed and have all competitors occasionally ski LT hand courses, occasionally RT hand courses and occasionally you get to pick - could be a more interesting tie breaker run off to force skiers to switch sides in the run off.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,721 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Not so sure there would be a desire to have this among skiers unless you grew up with it already. I've skied a reverse course. Crazy awkward with a muscle memory wanting to exit the gates from the rt side....aka ball 7.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,143 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I don't see what problem this "solution" solves. There seems to be just a reasonable distribution of RFF and LFF skiers being successful. It also seems like both the gates and one ball are critical to a successful pass, so, If I am RFF I get an onside gate shot, if I'm LFF I get an onside one ball.
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 233 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Would require a long distance for a course that would allow either left or right course. Many lakes would not have sufficient space to support.
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,632 Mega Baller
    edited March 14
    Does not solve any problem, does not fix any issues, does not impact those that do not or are not interested in this option and if it can be facilitated why not ? Would truly make slalom more interesting if where this option is available a skier has option to ski from right to left as well as left to right!

    Optional direction Sites Maybe even throw in a house rule where in a event the skier "has to switch" at some part of their set.

    Critics of this option are just plain scared they might get beat !
    Bring it!!

    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,507 Mega Baller
    The more I think about it the less I like symmetric courses and the more I like the idea of having LT hand courses and just force people to ski both orientations. Only certain large venue events would then be symmetrical or have to alternate orientation periodically.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,895 Mega Baller
    @JackQ unless I am missing something the course isn't any longer the only change would be there are 12 turnballs in the course one on each side of the boat guides in between the entrance gates. Overall length of the course doesn't change at all.

    Not sure if it really makes a difference I am not sure there is a huge benefit to LFF vs RFF.
    Mark Shaffer
  • WishWish Posts: 7,721 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★

    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • JackQJackQ Posts: 233 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Wish, you are correct for some reason I was invisioning something like a overlapping course.

    Jody, next you are going to want to jump from the other side. Oh the used to do that and call in Texas style.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,721 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @cheff23 is correct about the course being the same length. At Andy's tournament the only skiers that could make their first pass in "reverse" were the Pros and maybe a handful of others. Did not matter if it was LFF or RFF. He had a built in mulligan rule for your first pass of you missed cause he knew a lot would...I did.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • 75Tique75Tique Posts: 53 Baller
    I was thinking the same thing as Chef. Course takes up no more room and the whole thing can be accomplished with 6 extra balls. we change the set up to accommodate peoples preferences? Inside vs outside lane in track, clockwise vs counter clockwise in track (or NASCAR?) completely rearranging the gates in snow skiing? Left handed monkey wrenches?
    “So, how was your weekend?”
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  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,632 Mega Baller
    All of ya.
    Haters dont have to attend the optional entrance events. You can stay home it is ok!!
    Keep on mowing the grass and watching it grow.. B)
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • Tom351Tom351 Posts: 105 Baller
    edited March 15
    If you really wanted to make it interesting and require skiing both orientations: add a 7th turn ball so the gate shot orientation flips with course direction- then skiers would have to strategize pass selection for course orientation as well as wind direction.

    That being said....I am all for keeping it as is- just going along with the concept.
  • EdbrazilEdbrazil Posts: 1,396 Historical Baller
    At his site in Boca Raton Florida, Chet Raley has his 2 courses set up with the left-hand option. At one time, he was thinking of running a Class C where you were required to ski the lefty course in at least one round.
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,632 Mega Baller
    I really don't see why this concept should not be accepted for competition where "fees-able". measurements remain the same, rope lengths remain the same and boat paths remain the same (down the middle). at our site we could accomadate optional side course and are planning on installing hardware to do so.
    Class C no brainer Where Fees-able.
    And yes so should Texas style jumping be available where it can be accommodated..
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.

  • harddockharddock Posts: 162 Baller
    Your speed and line length only changes after you complete a left, and then a right run.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,507 Mega Baller
    In theory another way to set it up would be a 7th turn ball and a different set of entry and exit gates.
  • RRGRRRGR Posts: 2 New Baller
    I thought about this during the years when I competed in college, but ended up justifying it with, "if turn-in/1 is offside, then 5-6 is onside". I know for a fact if, 5-6 was on my offside I would have not made the pass on plenty of occasions. If I was somewhat late to 5, I was usually able to "pull my guts out", and make it around 6, and back through the gates... but there were also plenty of "too late to 6" scenarios where I didn't even try to get back to the gates.

    It would be interesting to see though!
  • ricorico Posts: 138 Baller
    I am RFF and my 135 turns are much better. Just saying...
    Eric Francois - Studio City, CA - 2018 Vapor Pro Build - Reflex Super /R Style
  • ricorico Posts: 138 Baller
    There was a Mapple challenge in Orlando a few years ago. I remember Nate ran 41 both sides
    Eric Francois - Studio City, CA - 2018 Vapor Pro Build - Reflex Super /R Style
  • mcskier41mcskier41 Posts: 60 Baller
    You haters are way over thinking this. It would so much fun to change things up. Whether adding a 7th buoy or 6 more turn balls (who cares), it would help change up the craziness of repetition we have with the current setup.
    And the fun of new challenges without a major change to slalom
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