Installation of inserts

I picked up some Connelly binding inserts and question the best install method. The inserts appear to be threaded with a flange on one end and a slotted end on the other. I was thinking these would screw into the blank and be bedded in epoxy but the flange condition is throwing me off. What am I missing?


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  • skialexskialex Posts: 847 Crazy Baller
    Flanged side goes on top, you need a nut to lock the screw in the insert in order to drive it in the ski.
    Mike
  • InboardfanInboardfan Posts: 2
    Thx Alex. What would the purpose of the slot be that is on opposite of the flange?
  • skibrainskibrain Posts: 60 Baller
    A standard screw driver blade fits the slot.
  • skibugskibug Posts: 2,027
    edited June 6
    Flange goes up, slot goes down. Speculation is the slot acts as a relief for displacing the material, then potentially spreads, ever so slightly, when screw is inserted.
    Bob Grizzi
    InboardfanMike
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,501 Mega Baller
    It will also hold some epoxy - @skibrain maybe you could do it on a stainless insert - the slot on a brass one won't exert enough torque w/o blow out.

    If you're doing quite a few make yourself an install tool - 1.5" dowel rod, drill a hole through it get section of threaded rod and run it through with some JB weld on it, then washer and cap nut on top washer and lock nut on bottom. You should have about 1" of threaded rod exposed on the bottom and then you don't need a separate screw driver.
  • skialexskialex Posts: 847 Crazy Baller
    @Inboardfan if you want I can send you a message with directions. Is this a repair or are you installing inserts to a ski that is not drilled?
    Inboardfan
  • jercranejercrane Posts: 246 Solid Baller
    edited June 6
    That notch strikes me as an odd design. I've never installed inserts in a water ski but I have installed hundreds in alpine snow skis. I use these https://www.bindingfreedom.com/insert/

    The slot in top of those is for an insert tool to slot in or a screw driver.
    https://www.bindingfreedom.com/insert-installation-tool/

    The bottom of the insert is closed and provides more surface area for the epoxy to adhere to without effecting the machine screw that screws into the insert.

    Obviously a lot less load on a waterski screw so maybe this is easier and cheaper. I just feel like I'd constantly be battling with epoxy interference.
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 582 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @Inboardfan Skialex and Skibug have the right idea. Use a lock nut to lock the screw into the insert. Then use your screw driver to run the insert into the hole you have drilled. The hole must be proper sized for the insert and into a material that will hold the insert in place.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
    skialex
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,785 Mega Baller
    Grab a long screw with same threading. Put two nuts on it and run them up a good bit. Then screw the loose insert onto this assembly. Adjust the insert and nuts so that the screw shaft stops flush with the deep end of the insert with the two nuts holding it at that depth. Using two small wrenches tighten the two nuts against each other to lock then on the screw at this depth. Now, prep the hole and the insert with epoxy. Mount the whole assembly (insert, nuts, and long screw) into the ski insert hole until the insert is flush with the ski surface. Let the epoxy dry. Then loosen the long screw and remove it with the locked nuts coming out in place on the long screw. The locked nuts simply make it easier to get the insert fully seated into the old hole. Worked great for me. I kept this assembly in my ski tool box. (credit @SM and @Gern Blanston with this tip from 2009)
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    mmosley899Inboardfan
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,816 Infinite Pandas
    Lots of good info here. I'll summarize based on my hundreds of insert repairs.

    Inserts hold in the top skin only. The core foam is weak. Use epoxy to reinforce the top skin from the inside and build up a strong mounting area.

    Use a somewhat flexible epoxy. Brittle laminating resins may be stronger but adhesive epoxies will keep inserts seated better. JB Quik is a reasonable epoxy that is widely available.

    Standard US inserts are 8-32 machine threads. Ace hardware sometimes stocks them but be careful to get small diameter inserts - the big ones are great for pull out repairs but not for the first fix. They are widely available on the internet. Brass works fine.

    Find a wood screw that matches the threads on the outside of the insert and use this to tap the ski before installing the inserts.

    Use a 1 inch long screw and a jam nut. Screw the jam nut on first then the insert. Fill all the insert threads with the screw. Tighten the jam nut to the insert. Quite tight. Make sure the screw doesn't drive in further when you screw the insert in the ski.

    Put epoxy both in the hole and on the insert before installing the insert.

    Drive it home. If the screw starts turning but not the insert (your jam nut wasn't tight enough) screw it in with the jam nut. Get it all the way in but don't push it. A little epoxy under the jam nut is OK.

    Add some heat with a heat gun to get a good bond and speed up the cure.

    Wait patiently until the epoxy cures (overnight).

    Hold on to the jam nut securely (I use vise grips) and back out the screw all the way. A cordless drill makes this easy. If you don't hold the jam nut well, you will back out the insert.

    Once the screw is completely out, break the jam nut free from the epoxy. It's easy if you screw the screw back in just to the depth of the jam nut and break it off. Clean and smooth the excess epoxy but a little excess is OK.

    Treat the hole with anti seize. Don't over torque the screws when you mount the binding. Only mount with stainless mounting screws.

    It's pretty straightforward to install inserts aftermarket. Good luck.

    Eric
    mmosley899MikeOscawanaSkier
  • skialexskialex Posts: 847 Crazy Baller
    edited June 7
    What @eleeski says is an excellent step by step installation direction. Only thing I do slightly different is the method I use to secure that the insert will stay in and won’t spin.
    I use a 3mm Allen that I have cut down and sharpened the short side and only left few millimeters sticking out, I put in in a power drill and inside the hole and give it few spins to dig a little in the foam. Then I take epoxy putty with metal flakes and fill the void and the hole up to the top. I then drill the putty before it hardens and immediately install the insert. You have to do two at the time because the putty hardens quickly, you can do 4 if you have help. Use a thin rod to push the putty in and fill the void completely.
    Alex,
  • spicolispicoli Posts: 127 Baller
    If you screw your insert on your tool about half way and lock it then I pack the bottom of insert with wax that keeps the putty from getting in the threads and you can pull the tool and start on another one
    skialexInboardfan
  • GarGar Posts: 311 Baller
    Goode Plastic inserts worked well on Goodes.
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