For those working perfecting stack position

lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
I’ve been skiing for a 18 yrs. At my peak I got through 35 at 34mph pretty often, even though I have always skied in a jackknife position.
I know now I need to learn to get stacked properly.

I use a reflex front and a rtp. Today was the first time ever that I have really really tried to get my pelvis over my front foot with a lot of ankle bend. It was a scary feeling but pretty amazing how high I could get on the boat on my gate pullout with little effort. What I really noticed was how much my back heel lifted off the ski. Is this normal or does it just mean my ankle flexibility is not good?
RAWSkiMJ1jercranerodecon
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Comments

  • WishWish Posts: 7,675 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 3
    I'd say normal. Which is why many pros have gone back to RTPs. Mobility to seamlessly move forward on the ski is a good thing.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator
    @lkb be careful about that heel lift. Often skiers fall back when they try to do that. I coach two feet flat on the ski with even pressure. Remember hips back is LITERALLY more back knee bend then front knee bend (if both are flat on the ski).

    There are some elite pros that do what you are saying but I think it is a SUPER hard skill for most skiers + I need the strength of both legs at the wakes.

    As far as the gate pull out - I do lift my heel a bit but that is the only place.

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  • elrelr Posts: 264 Mega Baller
    My son and I use the same set-up as you. I ski jackknifed and tail heavy - my son is stacked with his pelvis over the front foot. He has told me that in order to get into the proper position he bends his FRONT ankle enough that his front heal pressures upward on the release (he said it was quite unnerving at first). I tried to get the feeling he was describing (yes it is unnerving) but the results were amazing when I got it. Yes - I was skiing on the balls of both my front and rear foot.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
    lkb
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    edited July 3
    @horton just to be clear I’m not saying that I specifically wanted to have my rear heel off the ski I’m saying that if I bend my front ankle enough to get my pelvis over my front foot the rear heel is coming up as a consequence of that. It’s not actually possible to be stacked without hips over front foot is it?
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator

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  • SkierxSkierx Posts: 24 Baller
    edited July 3
    @Wish remind us about the things you mentioned the other day .what @adamhcaldwell says about vertical separation , standing up out of a chair, or as @AdamCord says keeping the sternum up as high off the water as possible. I agree completely about what you were saying when you tried the vertical separation everything else seems to happened on its own. I experienced the same thing.Observer from the boat said they never seen me look like that. I was literally waiting on the buoys to make my turn. Going through all the GUT articles and applying vertical separation , it all just happens naturally.
    Wish
  • WishWish Posts: 7,675 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited July 3
    @skerrx you pretty much summed it up. How that applies to RTP seems to fallow suite as it give one more freedom to get there. Agree with @Horton that heal lift is a result not a goal and the vertical seperation might and might not make that happen. To me this is a better way for the brain to rap around vs all the other ways I've heard to get stacked. It alleviates trying to pick muscles or body parts below the shoulders to accomplish it. Still keeps one athletically stanced and from ending up like a board. Just my opinion and now yours 👍
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    Skierx
  • MillerTime38MillerTime38 Posts: 310 Crazy Baller
    Personally I know I do lift my back heel but I don’t think about it. A natural athletic position will have you on the balls of your feet, which will slightly lift your back heel, actually both heels. Even my front foot the pressure is coming from the front of my foot.
    Killerlkb
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,128 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Years ago Andy took a video while skiing that focused on his rear heel (he skied with a reflex and a toe loop by then) and his rear heel never lifted.
    Not saying it's wrong, pretty sure Nate lifts his rear heal, but it's not necessary in order to get stacked.
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,128 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    RTP Myths

    lkbcustomskiballsohard
  • TheBigHeadTheBigHead Posts: 38 Baller
    @Jordan to me it looks like there is quite a bit of heel lift and movement there.
    Zman
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator
    @Jordan just because Andy did it doesn't mean the general public should do it.

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  • ToddFToddF Posts: 531 Baller
    @horton I don't understand that comment please expand on it.
    If I try and emulate someone who skis correctly and a by-product of skiing better or a better stacked position is a lifted heal, then why would I try and keep it flat if it caused me to get out of position?
    I don't have much ankle/hip flexibility and getting flat footed is nearly impossible unless my butt and cog is hanging out past the back end of the ski.
    ScottScott
  • jercranejercrane Posts: 228 Baller
    This is literally all I am working on with my skiing right now and I am struggling so much to actually accomplish it. I think I am getting there and then I watch video and I look like this.



    And this



    And realize I am not even close. So disheartening. Maybe I’ll try that ankle press on the strap thing???

    :(

    Andreballsohard
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    edited July 4
    This is from today. My second session of working on getting stacked. This is not good but it’s amazing how hard it was for me to even get it this good. And it’s still what I’d call awful when I go gate to 1, 2 to 3, 4 to 5 :s

    On this pass I was trying to focus on keeping my chin up and back leg straighter than front.
    AndrejercraneWishballsohard
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    @jercrane I feel your pain. Slalom is the hardest sport I’ve ever tried and now it just got a lot harder.
    What’s the strap thing you mentioned?
  • AndreAndre Posts: 1,106 Crazy Baller
    edited July 4
    @jercrane
    I know how you feel!
    I was running a lot of easy 32's off recently and thought that i was getting better at staying stack.
    Wrong.Got video last week and was looking identical as the last 10 years.
    Shoulders finish in 16.95 but my butt finish in 17.25 !

    Edit: @lkb Looking good there!
    lkbjercraneJordanballsohard
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator
    edited July 4
    @lkb for that boat speed and rope length your stack is more than sufficient. It's not perfect and it's not going to get you down 38 off but it's not bad.

    I would simply tell you to try to have straighter legs.

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  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,128 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Horton I never said that people should emulate Andy, simply said that Andy didn't lift his heal and he certainly got stacked. I also pointed out that Nate does lift his heal.

    @TheBigHead Look closer, while his heel does move it looks like it is bouncing as he crosses the wakes. I don't think he intentionally lifts his heel in an effort to get forward.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator
    edited July 4
    @Jordan Watch the video at 1/4 speed. Andy's heel clearly comes up at the ball. You can see it best at 2/4/6.


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  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    @horton yeah but the problem is that boat speed and that rope length aren’t the end goal.
    Straighter legs I’ll try next time. Is it weird my basic position is so much worse going to my right even though I’m rff? One of my rff ski partners has a great stack going to his right but less good going to his left.
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    So this is my second set today thinking about just keeping my legs straighter.

    I had some success with this. There may be hope after all!

    Below is a typical pass at 28 last week before trying to correct the bad posture






    AndreObrienslalom
  • JordanJordan Posts: 1,128 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @Horton at quarter speed it looks like an intentional movement. At regular speed, it looks like a bounce.... a Panda? seriously?
  • ZmanZman Posts: 1,403 Crazy Baller
    @lkb You have a lot of good stuff going on.
    Good skiing .
    lkbTheBigHead
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,530 Mega Baller
    @lkb huge improvement. I'm working on stack also. Skiing the best I've ever skied. 28s are getting easy and I'm not exerting near as much energy as well. 32 is looking doable. I ran the 30 off mid loop last week for the first time. I could be completely wrong but to me I think your bending your arms too much.
    Wish
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    @gregy. Thanks, yes you are probably right about my arms. Today I was only focused on finding some way to get stacked so other things definitely slipped through the cracks. My gate timing was off for most passes and it felt like I was just skiing buoy to buoy where I normally have a lot more time and space coming into the buoy...just a function of trying something totally new to me. All in all I’m really happy with the results of the second set today.
    gregyMDB1056
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,530 Mega Baller
    Try rotating your outside shoulder away from the boat a little more, push your hips up and straighten your arms. Should put you in ideal position.
  • lkblkb Posts: 568 Baller
    @gregy I’ve heard “hips up” a million times and tried it over and over. It just never worked for me. Straighter legs was what I needed to hear to finally get some results. I guess we all have to try different things until something clicks.
    OldboyII
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,946 Administrator
    "hips up" is old school coaching that works for some people that generally speaking I think it is the wrong words.

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