Moving Forward with 2011 Mastercraft

ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
edited August 2011 in Other Stuff
There are a couple of threads about the current 2011 TT. There is a lot if impressions on the boat/wake/pull, etc. However, we should look forward towards solutions.

Than said: "A lot of posters appear to be missing the one relevant observation that has come out of this, which is that *some* Mastercrafts seem to have *relatively* bad wakes under *some* conditions, but IT MIGHT BE FIXABLE."

From the many comments it seems that there are three suggested elements of variance in the 2011 Mastercrafts appearing at tournaments.
1) Prop
2) Flash update applied or not
3) Engine

The proper next steps is to document these two elements for a majority of 2011 TT's.

For those who ski behind a wonderfully performing 2011 TT - please find out the status of these three elements for that boat.

For those who skied behind or suggested/reported a sub-par performing 2011 TT at an event, please find out from the promo rep the status of these three elements. (Yes, you may have to do some work to contact the promo owner, and we hope they answer accurately as to the boat's state at the event in question...)


If there is a significant correlation between any one or more of these factors and the assessment of the boat's performance, then we have the answer to the mystery and most importantly a solution for all 2011 TT's.

-- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.

Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,413 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2011
    I'll help out with the two 2011 TT's we had at our (Okeeheelee) May Record.

    Both boats were equipped with:
    Indmar 5.7 (I'm 99% sure, but have sent an email to verify they didn't have the Ilmor)
    OJ, 4, 13 x 14.5 Nibral
    ZO 301Q

    Both boats skied great. One of the boats arrived with the other prop and was said to have a hard wake all the way to 39. After the prop change, wake was a non issue (this was about a week before the tournament). I believe the ZO version was changed as well, so can't say if it was just the prop that fixed the wake, but maybe this thread will help sort that out.
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,373 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    One thing that gets lost in the noise is the expense the promo guys go thru to provide a boat to pull our events. If you think the MC is not up to par, then pony up the money and buy a SN 200 or Malibu Response. Then, take it to tournaments with you. The LOC will gladly let you put it in the water and use it to pull the tournament. As I have experienced, not all boats (including SN200) are created equal. There is some set up required on behalf of the owner (promo person). If you have a bad experience behind a certain brand, it just may be your skiing and not the boat (novel concept, indeed!). But if the boat "feels" different, then possibly there is something the owner can do to rectify. As stated in another thread, I pulled a fair amount of skiers w/ a 2011 MC TT at our Regionals last weekend. The boat drove very nice and in my mind, was set up properly by the promo person. This proves to me that the 2011 MC can be set up properly where it does not hinder the performance of the skier.
    Joe Darwin
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    Joe,

    I'm not biased on this topic for or against any particular boat. It just seemed that this body of skiers/drivers/judges is a resource that can quickly put this to bed with some knowledge sharing. The same type of discussion can occur in any given year for any given make/model.

    My thought is that if the solution is confirmed and known, then we can move forward.

    As to the thought of what expenses are considered promo owner setup vs. manufacturer promo fleet improvements... that seems like a new thread topic to me. Also, it is probably a business judgement call by the manufacturer as to whether to fund changes to their promo fleet to address concerns in the market.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • kstateskierkstateskier Posts: 518 Solid Baller
    the 11 TT I ski behind has a phenomenal pull...

    1.) Not sure the prop but knowing the lake owner its a 4 blade OJ Nibral
    2.) ZO, not flashed
    3.) Illmor...

    I ski 36mph, B2 at 165lbs its one of the softer pulls I've experienced behind a ZO boat.
    KStateSkier
    Bradley Beach - Lone Rock Ski Club, Missouri
    2004 Malibu Response LXI, 2014 D3 Helix 66"
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,806
    Joe, you are right. But if you also recall, I told you at the end of the lake on the first pass that THAT 197 had a much softer wake than the one we'd skied behind two weeks prior there. I've skied behind 4 2011 TT's this year. That one and Bob's are nice. The other 2 had stupid hard wakes at 22 and 28. Now, is that setup? Prop? I don't know but they are markedly different.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • MCskiFreakMCskiFreak Posts: 315 Baller
    Another varible would be some of the 2011's left the factory without the new strut.
    Matt Welton - Resident boat nerd
  • east tx skiereast tx skier Posts: 588 Solid Baller
    I skied an older 197 with the new strut as an add on (and all othe add ons that would make it the same as an 11 for all i can tell) I could not detect any discernible improvement for the addition of the strut as far as the wake is concerned. No better or worse than any other 197 I have skied behind. I ski from the ladies' tees (long line and slow). I'll be the first to admit that these record boats are not designed for my level of skiing, but speaking for the Jrs who ski better than I do at those speeds, I wouldn't bet that the new strut is a game changer.
    Perpetual Longline Baller. Tyler Ski Club, Tyler, Texas.
    My real name is in my profile.

    www.tylerskiclub.com
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 1,897 Crazy Baller
    OB, I think that the boat that you skied behind was the same that I skied behind. I think that boat is owned by Lou Alcamo, and it did ski nice.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • jipster43jipster43 Posts: 1,356 Crazy Baller
    I skied behind one of the first 2011 TT's to roll off the lot - I don't believe the new strut was incorporated into the production at the time, but the wakes felt perfecto garcia.

    JP :)
  • Nick SullivanNick Sullivan Posts: 676 Baller
    OJ 13 x14.5
    ZO 301Q
    6.0 Ilmore

  • Nick SullivanNick Sullivan Posts: 676 Baller
    Oh, and its a Powerslot with the new strut.
  • konakona Posts: 529 Baller
    I am kind of boat-less right now so I would love a 2011 TT. Its got to be better than I/O or V drive right ? My point being I wouldn't know the difference right now as mentioned by east tx skier, BUT if spent the kind of coin needed for 2011 TT and it didn't ski
    " perfecto garcia " i'd be upset. my 2 cents. Like my friends from down under say "No Wucking Forries mate"
    Bob Boyle - I am my girls father
  • KlingerKlinger Posts: 71 Baller
    Good skiing boat with great wakes!
    OJ 13x14.5
    ZO301Q
    5.7 Indmar
  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,413 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2011
    I believe it's mostly the prop. I've skied behind Lou Alcamo's 2011 with the old strut (he had one of the first 2011's) and also our local promo boat which does have the new strut and skied very hard until the new prop was installed. To be fair, the 301Q was installed at the same time which is why I didn't want to just state that the prop was the fix. It's starting to look like it though...
    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • east tx skiereast tx skier Posts: 588 Solid Baller
    edited August 2011
    Kona, I didn't mean to convey that I can't tell the difference between the wake of a 197 versus a SN/196 versus an LXi. Quite the opposite. And I can attest that, for me, at slower speeds and longer line lengths, the 197 is going to have a more noticeable bump than any TSC 1/2/3 Ski Nautique. That is not to say that I think it is unskiable or dangerous, at least not for me. Quite the opposite. Just keep it on edge and keep those knees like soft and no worries. I wouldn't turn down a set behind anything and enjoy mixing it up (not a tournament skier though). But I have my preference.

    What I was saying above is that I didn't think the new bullet strut on the MC made any discernible difference in the wake characteristics, at least from my vantage point from the "ladies tees."

    I have seen props make a noticeable difference in older boats. I have skied behind two older 197s that upgraded to the 2006+ rudder and felt that that improved the wake based on my memory of what it was like before (not to mention the handling).

    On the other hand, I have weighted the nose of my 98 SN just to see if it improved what I felt needed little improvement and any noticeable improvement in the wake was overridden by what a plowing pig it felt like at slow speeds. Removed the weight and couldn't be happier with my boat.

    In sum, very little works like we like it out of the box. At the very least, the seats and tilt steering need to be adjusted before we hit the water. ;)
    Perpetual Longline Baller. Tyler Ski Club, Tyler, Texas.
    My real name is in my profile.

    www.tylerskiclub.com
  • konakona Posts: 529 Baller
    I know. What I meant was anything will be an improvement for me.
    Bob Boyle - I am my girls father
  • wlrottgewlrottge Posts: 21
    Not that I ski well enough for it to matter yet, but.... from someone who has been in the boat world all his life as the son of a sales/service shop (been in business since 1962). Dad's also one of those, "it's got a V6, can I fit a V8 in there?" sort of guys, so I've done some high speed/performance stuff.

    I'd put a paycheck on the prop being the biggest factor. The change in shaft RPM by goind up/down a pitch will change the lift produced by the prop and therefore the size and shape of the wake. Changes in cupping and blade shape will also have an impact.
  • unksskisunksskis Posts: 263 Baller
    To JDarwin's point, maybe there is something to be said about the Promo selection, or the conveying of how one should be set up amongst the team. That could be said for all brands. It would be good to see the promo teams rewarded for having these "good rides" people speak about, and if they aren't, well maybe they just aren't the right fit for promo. Promo programs need to be more rewarding for the team members to actually put the effort in, as well as need to select the appropriate individuals to set up and represent the brand in the tournament arena. I APPRECIATE ALL PROMO Team members (that take their boats to tournaments at least)
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