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coming off second wake

alex38alex38 Posts: 454 Baller
edited April 2008 in Technique & Theory
Hi,


Just started free-skiing on my new 66" MPD. Switched from an '06 Nomad. I would like to get through 35 off 34 mph this season. I notice alot more speed coming off the second wake with this ski, so much that it seems to "propel" itself through the edge change.


What is the best position here? It looks like on video alot of skiers bring there knees up for a very pronounced edge change. Tom Henderson said I should be able to notice the ski go from between me and the boat to behind me and the boat.


 

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,654 Administrator
    watch this


    http://ballofspray.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=7#nav_pic


     

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  • Director DarwinDirector Darwin Posts: 386 Baller
    I'm certainly not an expert but Skidawg was coaching my daughter on some 28 off technique last night and it was a great tip that I intend to utilize:


    As you come off the 2nd wake (or thru the white water) try and get your inside hip to the ball first.  In other words, going into 1 ball, try and get your left hip to arrive at the buoy first.  This will make your ski move under you and cast outward along with keeping your upper body and hips pointing toward shore.   Its just another way of using the "counter-rotation" theme.    This will allow you to take advantage of the speed (and cross course angle) you and your ski have generated. 


    The "knees up" scenario you mention occurs right before the edge change.  This is a result of coming thru the wakes.  Upon exiting the wakes, you will notice that the skier begins to extend their legs while at the same time bringing their inside hip around in a counter rotation.  The action of bringing the ski under you and ultimately outbound  creates the delelleration that you seek.  


    I know I probably missed some things here but the "inside hip to the buoy" visualization is something that clicked.
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 454 Baller
    Sweet, with responses to questions that fast, this site is a limitless resource.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 25,654 Administrator
    Great comment from the Dawg. I want to add that I to not think you ever want to try to pull your knees up. If you watch some of the pros it happens but I do not think it is something that they try to do. Heck I try to keep me legs mostly straight all the time.

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  • HO 410HO 410 Posts: 351 Baller
    There is a section on the West Coast Slalom DVD that talks about the edge change.


     This is a paraphrase of what I am able to remember: Once you begin to accelerate off the ball, and forces begin to build up, you push harder and harder with your legs (this is not necessarily to straighten your legs, but to maintain your position). As you begin the edge change (on the DVD they might call it a transfer) you release the pressure that you have built up. This will create that slingshot effect where the ski move outbound into the turn. The shorter the line, the greater the forces, the more your knees spring up when you release pressure at the edge change.


    I probably just butchered a Mike Suyderhoud gem. I'll come back and edit this when I get a change review the DVD and put down an exact quote.
    Nikon D80, 50mm f 1.8, Tokina 12-24mm... Sorry, wrong forum. Josh T.
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,172 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    the knees come up as a result of compression from the load, nothing else,  i.e. longer rope less compression off 2nd wake, shorter rope, more load, more compression,  the compression lets the ski move from underneath you to out in front  for edge change. That parrish vid is the bomb, no knee bend there.
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
    rawly
  • CamCam Posts: 298 Solid Baller
    I spent a couple of weeks last month trying Gordon Rathbun/Seth Stisher drills to achieve the above, I worked hard at it at 22 with minimal returns , but when I tried it at 32 it just seemed to happen with no effort.
  • slalomdudeslalomdude Posts: 154
    Cam,


    Can you share any of those drills, thanks
  • scokescoke Posts: 623 Baller
     


    skidawg has me on a quest now. especially watching that video.


     
  • scokescoke Posts: 623 Baller
     


    Just joined up here......


     Took two sets at JD's place Friday afternoon. Something definetly in that water, besides the nutria rats of course.


     Took a set Saturday morning and had Skidawg finally tell me what's holding me back. Took another set at JD's saturday after lunch then back to BR.
  • ktm300ktm300 Posts: 387 Baller
    Was coached this weekend to consciously rotate my hips just past centerline going into offside.  The ski did roll out from under me more and did get behind me more or, rather, I was up more of the ski.  I was told to let my inside hip lead.  I watched the video of Parrish, and others, and I really do not see his hip rotate at all.  I do not see the ski get behind him.  I see him stand right over the ski.  What am I not getting.  One other thing, the precise moment when I am supposed to begin rotating my hips is also the spot where I am going 50+ mph.  On the Edged video in the bonus section Jamie runs the most beautiful pass I have ever watched.  I have watched that pass a lot.  What I see is that the angle he has is creating the edge change and the rotation.  The rotation looks more like a by product of the angle than a conscious effort to rotate.  I have also wondered if skis like the F1 and MPD don't lend to this happening based more on the tracking of the ski than the guy in the boots forcing a hip movement.  Please shed some light.  Thanks.
  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,459 Crazy Baller
    edited May 2008
    ktm300,


    My line length is probably longer than most posting here, but her I go.


    Not sure this will work for you, but I think of it as the start of the counter rotation. Pushing the inside hip towards the ball in the pre-turn.


    Leaving the previous ball I consciencely try to square my shoulders to the boat, which causes me to push or try to lead with my outside hip. Then going into the preturn, I start the counter (almost trying to square my shoulders to the shore) by pushing my inside hip towards the ball.  


    Rossi explained it to me once as, trying to sit on one ball with your right butt cheek, trying to sit on two ball with the left. You can only do this by leading with the inside hip.


    I think this may be what Marcus describes as moving your center of mass in the direction you want to travel.


    Bruce Butterfield recently posted this tip. I had to do with starting the pull out, but I think it applies here : http://ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=451&page=1#Item_17


    He wrote; Instead of leading with your left shoulder, like in the picture, try to keep your shoulders level and lead with your left hip.  It can be as simple thinking about moving your left hip in the direction you want to go.
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