What is the purpose of Nationals

dislanddisland Posts: 1,129 Crazy Baller
edited August 2012 in Rules/Politics/Issues

What is the purpose of Nationals 66 votes

Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
28%
Dekedisland35 in the bagHam_WallaceKelvinThan_BogankdameyerjimbrakeMattPTim VaioKMski4xtcschroedgjohnsonh2oshreddersunperchdbskiandjulesAWSATechDude 19 votes
Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
57%
HortonRogerblockChuck_DickeyskiepUp NorthBoodySkiRVChef23PSMPhilBoneHeadRpc29Alvin_NeffGAJ0004randy menyT-UPToddLjdarwinlottawatta 38 votes
Its a money maker for USA Waterski
13%
skidawgteammalibuRichardDoanedave2ballbmiller3536behindpropellersjwroblewMSskiboat38 9 votes
Its a qualifier for world championships
0%
Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,630 Administrator
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    Good question Dave

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  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,960 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    but, the best skiers are not always there so... its a tournament where on that given day the winner is the best out of the present field.
    gjohnson
  • DooSPXDooSPX Posts: 328 Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    though I voted the same as @Horton, I do have to agree with you on that @MattP
    Jason Lord- 1991 MasterCraft Prostar 190 Powerslot-OJ CNC 4 blade
    2011 Best in Show 1987-2000 class MasterCraft Reunion
    Show boat - Weekend slalom tug
  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 1,761 Mega Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    Good question indeed. I would like to say it's also for the family...but I haven't been to one so I wouldn't know. It would be nice if the Nationals were still centrally located in the USA...but that is just me. I'm probably biased being in the Midwest.....
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,960 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    They were in the mid west the last two years...
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,129 Crazy Baller
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    If you voted number 2 then why is the level 8 cut off for B1, G1 at 80%. Clearly they are trying to achieve number 1 or 3
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • MSMS Posts: 4,486 Mega Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    It is a good time for the appointed officials on our dime. Isnt this a volunteer sport?
    Shut up and ski
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,992 Mega Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    @disland it's not all one or the other. Part of the rationale (at least it was when I was on the committee) is to encourage participation. Better to bolster the younger ranks than it is the older groups. I believe the best still find their way to the top of the podium. Much more likely to see the 95th percentile skier end up with medals than the 80th percentile.

    Actually if the goal was #3, why limit skiers in any way? Let every one ski if they attend and pay the entry fee.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,129 Crazy Baller
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    @klindy I agree should have put a choice all of the above :-)
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 409 Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    The nationals used to be very prestigious tournament. Now it seem that it is just a cattle drive to see how many skiers they can ski in a week. With the Big Dawg the issue of top skiers dropping down into their divisions the nationals seem to be just an ordinary tournament.
  • bmiller3536bmiller3536 Posts: 298 Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    Paying $160.00 for 1 round of slalom...someone is making some $$$
    Brad Miller
  • gjohnsongjohnson Posts: 276 Baller
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    I found the national tournament to be long and boring. I spend my time and money doing something more fun.
    Greg Johnson ~ Team Beer
  • WishWish Posts: 7,074 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    So the money making theorists..... How do the $$$$s get distributed?? Ski Club? Facilities? Officials? USA Waterski? Other? Is it percentage based? Anyone have real numbers?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
    Its a ski festival where the best skiers in the nation and their kids come to see each other and have fun competing
    That's a great question -- I can tell because I really wasn't sure of my answer. The reason *I* often attend (though not this year) is the one I voted for. And that's why I wouldn't support limiting the qualification to only those with a "real" chance to win.

    Another purpose in my mind is a "carrot." For most people, including me, qualifying for Nationals at first seems just barely possible, but a stretch goal. So making it that first time is pretty awesome. I'd say it was one of my main motivations to really get fundamentally better for a few years, instead of just hacking around.

    But I do thing it should be a real championship, too. That's why I don't want to see MM at Nationals. In fact, I don't think I even want to see OM and OW, although I must admit that OM is complicated by the fact that some of the participants are over 35 and would have to ski against folks at 34 in an age group championship.

    But I sure would like it if Nationals were the final arbiter of age group champions for that season.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • cwillygoodcwillygood Posts: 195 Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    i really wish i could vote for 2 different ones, i think that for some it is to determine nationals champions, but for many more its for the experience of competing on a big stage and having fun/ getting a cool experience
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 409 Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    In the early 2000's it used to take [email protected] off for M2 or [email protected] for M1. Men 3 used to have almost 200 hundred skiers alone. Anybody there could win on any given day. You did have the best of the best. And there were no issues like today. The kids numbers started to drop because mom and dad did not qualify. If the parents did not qualify the kids who were able to ski nationals did not go. Drop in entries and revenue. So the EP's dropped to allow the parents to qualify so the parents would bring the kids. Now with the new system of level 8, 9 ect. there are no EP's so you don't get the best of the best you get who ever is in the cutoff level and above. The nationals have become a joke.
    Everybody laughs at INT but there numbers are growing and we are not. They do take the top 5 or 10 skiers from every region and they get to go to the INT nationals. They get the best of the best even though it is performance based ie never made 28 off not age based.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,073 Mega Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    For me if I ever qualify it would be for the experience of competing against the best in my age group.

    @MattP in every tournament you can only beat the people that show up to compete. In an amateur event it is always the case that you don't get everyone there.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,459 Crazy Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    This will be our first Nationals and my daughter worked hard to make regionals and get qualified for Nat's. The $160.00 for her upcoming 40 second Trick ride is only a small part of the expense involved in attending from way out here in So. Cal. The pay off is her progress over this past year and hopefully it will carry over to next season. She'll be done skiing Nationals by 10;00AM on day one, but we are staying the entire week to see a bunch of our friends ski and cheer them on. Really looking forward to the Big Dawg's on Friday night. Blow the dust off your wallet and come support your friends that qualified and maybe get inspired to participate in next years event.
    MattP
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,379 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited August 2012
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    If you think AWSA (USAWS) makes money on Nationals, please review the 2011 budget - USAWS "LOST" $31,000 on Nationals last year. Hard to comprehend considering $160 entry fees. If you want to see how the money is distributed, again refer to the USAWS budget - it's online.

    http://www.usawaterski.org/graphics/downloads/2012JanuaryUSAWSBoardMinutesandPacket.pdf

    Go to page 38 of the board packet to see details on Nationals P&L. Over $48,000 in overhead and labor allocation from USAWS. I know it's simply an accounting trick but absurd nonetheless.
    Joe Darwin
  • DragoDrago Posts: 939 Crazy Baller
    It depends on where one is in life: when I skiid M2, then Open, it was a darn serious competition. And, being from Colorado , a chance to up my world ranking. Later, MM, it was a sort-of serious competition. Then, with kids and very limited training, a place to go and see friends from all over the states. Can't remember if I've gone as aM4... But soon will take the kids and may not even enter.
  • skiboat38skiboat38 Posts: 116 Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    Numbers don't lie.....but liars do numbers! You can't go to a tournament in the state of Florida for under $125 per person. The bank accounts for the state and region are unreal and the people in charge will not spend it to promote anything other than their personal agendas. The sport is bleeding to death and these old control farts will drive it that way unless some changes are made.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,862 Mega Baller
    Where you can go and see ripped girls in bikinis?
    cwillygoodE_T
  • dave2balldave2ball Posts: 409 Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    skiboat38 I agree 100%.
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,838
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    Seems to me that page 38 of that P&L spreadsheet is pure fabrication. How could they only have $22k in entry fees for 2011? That's less than 150 entries. And then what labor expense do they have? I'm assuming they are accruing a portion of USAWS's overall labor/salary and overhead expense for the year to that one event.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • MSMS Posts: 4,486 Mega Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    Hotels for the chiefs and appointed. Waste of money. The people that show up to help judge and volunteer do all the work. I am not saying that they do nothing but this is a volunteer sport that could be made better if that requirement would go away.
    Shut up and ski
  • sunvalleylawsunvalleylaw Posts: 1,139 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2012
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    Could and should be multiple answers, including 1 and 2. But I voted 2 as the primary function that should be occurring. I agree with @MS's comment in another thread that the top skiers should be invited based on the season's results and ski it out to crown national champions in the various age groups. Just like any other national event such as USSA nationals for snow skiing.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,992 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    @MS really?

    *start rant* I promise you this isn't a free vacation for me this year....Being an appointed official certainly helps with costs (hotel rooms as you pointed out) but if I showed up and skied and left it would be FAR cheaper than staying the whole week "on your dime". My entry fee didn't go down, I still need to rent a car (for twice the days than if I ski and go), I still need to eat, extra vacation days, even extra banquet tickets are at the standard price.

    The tournament puts enough skiers and families into enough rooms that the hotels offer discounts and, perhaps, a certain number free rooms. Not saying the LOC's hotels costs are zero - I have no idea what they spend vs. what's discounted. But that same volume of hotel rooms is what provides EVERY skier a discounted room too in most cases. That's how the hotel industry works and is nothing special for waterskiiers (same things happen for tradeshows every day of the week!).

    I agree it's a volunteer sport and we both do our share of volunteering! There's enough tournaments basically every weekend near my house that I can pretty much stay at home and get all the skiing I want. *end rant*


    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • MSMS Posts: 4,486 Mega Baller
    Its a money maker for USA Waterski
    Klindy,
    I know that TC and other chiefs are needed for the week. It is a monster expense for the LOC of the nats. Do the appointed get put up?
    I know that most skiers are not at the host hotel. they are super 8s and other chain cheap hotels.
    Shut up and ski
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,992 Mega Baller
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    @MS - I believe all chief, appointed and assigned officials have a hotel room reserved for them. Some more days than others depending on what they do (TC is there a day/two early as an example).

    Choosing the host hotel is always a decision point but the more paid rooms by people using the group code (or whatever) generally provides more free or discounted rooms. I see there were at least 4 hotels listed on the tournament notice.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,379 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Its a tournament for the best skiers in age brackets to determine national champions
    Hotel costs? Really? I've worked one Nationals and it will be a long time before I work another. Free hotel room? Whoopee! As Keith stated, that's the least costly item. Just the vacation days alone are worth more. Not to mention that it's always cheaper to live at home than on the road. And in the grand scheme of things, the hotel costs are minimal due to free or reduced rates that these tournaments enjoy.
    Joe Darwin
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