Nano 1 vs Twist Cross Course Speed

Double7sDouble7s Posts: 37 Baller
edited September 2012 in Mostly Slalom
Two sets on my Nano 1 with the factory setting. It feels slower from side to side compared to the twist. I run the same buoy count on both skies but I have to work twice as hard to get the same thing on the Nano 1.
I was hoping the magic that would get me out the gates at 38. Can't see it on this ski unless some changes. It's a different animal so I'm not sure where to start. Any ideas?
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Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,726 Administrator
    Take more speed into the gate. Yes it is not super fast but it gets wide easy

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  • Double7sDouble7s Posts: 37 Baller
    175lbs. 34 mph
  • jipster43jipster43 Posts: 1,414 Crazy Baller
    @scotchipman @Double7s. Have either of you removed your wing? I thought @Horton felt that gave him some extra speed and the ski still shut down well at the turn.

    My waterski vocabulary has officially outstripped my skiing credentials. I geek.
  • Double7sDouble7s Posts: 37 Baller
    Have done nothing to the wing or fin. Tried moving binding back and offside would not turn. Moved one hole forward of stock, it helped fix the turn.
    I'll try no wing. Got nothing to lose.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 2,196 Mega Baller
    I've heard of several folks who have removed the wing with good success.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • Double7sDouble7s Posts: 37 Baller
    Last time I skied without a wing was on my Connelly Super Hook.

  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,726 Administrator
    I took the wing off for a few sets but lost angle. Unless the water is really hot keep it on.

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  • Double7sDouble7s Posts: 37 Baller
    What angle are you running.
  • Stevie BoyStevie Boy Posts: 1,852 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I tried running with deeper fin 2.502 but kept factory settings, theski ran on rails but the turns were so hard i could not cope, one thing I noticed tho was that the ski carried more speed on the setup and was easier to run with the boat, I have gone back to factory, but I am considering moving the wing to 10 degrees which should add a litle more tip (similar to deeper fin) and see if the ski carries more speed, sounds a bit back to front I know @horton any thoughts ?

    "Another Ball Bites The Dust”

  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,726 Administrator
    Try going back to stock on the fin and move the bindings back.

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  • MSMS Posts: 5,049 Mega Baller
    If you feel the ski is slow, its set up wrong. This ski carries speed well is is easy to move out off the wake.
    Shut up and ski
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,997
    The N1 has gotten faster and faster feeling as my ski partner has moved his bindings back. Have you actually measured the fin or did you run as it arrived from Goode? The one he got, the fin was nowhere close.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • bradbbradb Posts: 33 Baller
    Try 8 degrees on the wing. That solved the problem for me.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    edited September 2012
    Disclaimer: I have never skied on a Nano Twist.

    I believe the Nano One can "feel" slow when it actually isn't, because of the way it takes a long sweeping, yet very tight radius, turn. Because the ski never slows down too much at the end of the turn, it doesn't need to accelerate a lot to get that speed back.

    Thanks to Newton's sometimes-annoying laws, you can't feel speed -- only acceleration. So when the cycle of acceleration and deceleration is damped a bit, the ski "feels" slower.

    I think we've all seen that this ski is smooth and easy enough that you can get right back to your best scores on the first or second day. But this ski is also very different, and I think to get the MOST out of it, it's going to require time on the ski to learn how to take the maximum advantage of what it can do.

    As I noted in another thread somewhere, the weirdest thing about this ski is that it's not as "fun" as older Goodes, because there's no "shot-out-of-a-cannon" phase. Instead it just keeps bringing me to the next buoy with room to spare. How boring! :)

    On a setup note, I think 10 degrees is worth a shot. I started at my "usual" 7 and felt the carry-out was not good. Dave Goode suggested I add wing. Sounds unintuitive, but 8 was better than 7 for carry-out and 9 was perhaps even a touch better. I haven't tried 10 myself yet, but I may. I'm guessing that somehow the extra wing angle delays the "shut-down?" And because this ski can shut-down so fast it can make you run narrow if it's not setup right and/or you're not skiing it quite right.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan It does seem counter-intuitive that more wing would delay shut-down. Do you think the increased carry-out could be the result of more speed generated by better angle during the cut?
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,245 Mega Baller
    @SkiJay Certainly that's possible. I don't know the reason, but I've heard several people say that many adjustments on this ski seem opposite to the "conventional" adjustments on other skis.

    Anyhow, my point is only to TRY both less and more wing, to see if either one solves the issue.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 1,789 Mega Baller
    Question from someone that doesn't see any shortline (35 off and less) - is it really SPEED that you want to feel? Don't we want our ski to be efficient - ie smooth is FAST? This follows what @Than_Bogan mentioned in that we can only feel acceleration. If we are efficient at what we do, we'll get more work done with less effort, which equates to more sets, and more buoys.
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,997
    @Skoot1123 I think it's an issue of semantics. What a lot of people consider a fast ski is what other people call a low effort ski.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • Skoot1123Skoot1123 Posts: 1,789 Mega Baller
    @ShaneH - Ok. That helps. Thanks!
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited September 2012
    @scotchipman Assuming that by "less effort" you mean less drag, then less wing = less effort. Beyond less to no wing and binding placement, effort is pretty much a function of flex, tunnel, rocker and bevels ... not very adjustable.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited September 2012
    @scotchipman For what it's worth, a smaller wing is an option too, as is a stainless wing with thinner mounting flanges.

    image
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    edited September 2012
    The flangeless Speed Fin is an option too, @scotchipman. It was designed as a direct replacement specifically for the Goode fin, so it might be ideal. Does anyone know if Goode has changed thier fin shape or hole pattern over the past five years?

    image
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,003 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I think what happens with a steeper wing angle is that the ski leaves the second wake with the tip a little higher which allows the ski "jet out" or jump out wider faster. This is only based on personal experience. I seem to like around 7° because I don't seem to handle the ski stopping abruptly at the ball. Probably has alot to do with core strength.
  • swaterkdswaterkd Posts: 57 Baller
    I had the same problem coming from the twist and spoke with dave goode and he had me add depth to the fin and it fix the speed problem. I'm now at 2.503.

  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,976
    I made the 9900 Mid and Nano Twist Mid faster by going to a Fwd Mini Ventral and a Rear Large Ventral. Also helped to keep the tip down off the apex...I use the same set-up on the Sans SR2 and the HO S2, with a Carbon Fin.

    Chet and Chad did a video on this set-up, that I believe is still on the Goode Web-Site.
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  • RichRich Posts: 252 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I believe the nano1 is actually faster than other Goodes. It rolls up on edge and generates more cross course angle. This may "feel" slow however it is covering more distance which = speed. I have a blade I'm using that I can run deeper and is slightly better on the onside as it slides just a bit more, though subtle. The off side turn is incredible with either the stock blade on stock settings or my modified bladed run deeper 2.502. same DFT as stock & same length.
  • RichRich Posts: 252 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    a deeper blade holds more angle. more angle will allow you to travel distance. distance traveled = speed. Feeling fast can be a ski that is not getting as much angle. going in direction of the boat always feels fast.
  • skiing2heavenskiing2heaven Posts: 78 Baller
    @ShaneH wrote – “The N1 has gotten faster and faster feeling as my ski partner has moved his bindings back”

    @Horton wrote – “ Try going back to stock on the fin and move the bindings back.”

    @Scotchipman wrote – “I'm open for suggestions on how to increase the speed but not sure I can go back any farther on my boots”


    How can moving the bindings back and displacing more weight on the back of the ski make the ski go faster?

    Thanks!
  • RichRich Posts: 252 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    My experience with all Goode skis up to the nano1 has been bindings back allowed me to get into the sweet spot at the apex in a stacked body position. I believe it also allowed me to get the ski in front of me off the 2nd wake. As I approach apex, I'm again coming up over the ski getting more ski in the water at the apex. This allowed me to acheive more angle which = speed. On the nano1 I have maintained the stock binding position because the ski is working so well. I have played with the blade as I mentioned above, On the nano1, I was not getting the tail slide I wanted to feel on the onside and rather than go shallower on the blade I went with a 3/4 in slot and deeper blade. Its been working great.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 26,726 Administrator
    edited September 2012
    @skiing2heaven
    bindings back means you can hold more angle and edge => more speed

    Move bindings forward yes you have more ski under and behind you but less leverage against the tail => less speed

    Note this is a rule of thumb and only works to a point.

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