Subtle, but very important technique

Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,071 Mega Baller
When I watched this video of Matt Brown in another thread, it jumped out at me that he exhibited a key point of technique better than just about any other skier I have seen (at least on that pass, lest his head get too big).



So, its quiz time. Matt is doing many things well, but what one thing stood out to me?

Horton has been volunteered to send a free bottle of Kilo Kai to the first correct answer. If no one gets it in the first 20 posts, I get the bottle:)
If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.

Comments

  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,816
    edited March 2013
    All I know is when I saw that video the other day, my first thought was....... That was an absolutely phenomenal pass. Head and shoulders better than I saw him last year. I watched it no less than 20 times. Hell, I watched it another 5 times while typing this reply. lol One thing stood out to me the very first time I watched it and I key into it every other time I watch it. I'm guessing it's not what you noticed. But when he turns in, he lets the ski come under the rope BEFORE he ever leans against the handle. Which is a function of speed, I'm thinking. It makes the turn in look identical to how he finishes the turn at 1,2,3,4, and 5.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

    Brady
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,893 Moderator
    edited March 2013
    Bruce I would say what he is doing best in this video is that he is letting the ski finish all the way then doing all the work at the first white water then letting off to change edges right behind the boat while pushing the ski ahead of him.
    ski6jones
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    Head up and looking downcourse with eyes level at EVERY turn.
    Brady
  • ralral Posts: 1,674 Mega Baller
    Even at shortline, he does not reach until he is at buoy width, and at bouy width his body is vertical.
    Rodrigo Andai
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    @Bruce_Butterfield what stands out to me is how much power is in Matt's lead arm so far past the edge change. Not just two hands long but holding on to the power longer.

    Am I warm?

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  • schroedschroed Posts: 142 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Changing his edge early but keeping his shoulders going in the same direction. It's either that or holding in his beer gut so you can't see it.
  • KlundellKlundell Posts: 432 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    What stuck out to me is where he is looking in the turn. Head up looking down the buoy line through the completion of the turn. Allowing him to stay open through the finish of the turn which is the reason he is carrying speed all the way into the white water before he hooks up. Great pass.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    @OB, the key is to have the speed to get the ski around and out in front of you. If you are stalling and wait, you will get yanked out of position. So speed is a part of it.
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,595
    @OB,

    You bring up a really great point....A lot depends on your position at the Apex..If you are hips and shoulders countered at the apex with a "Forward" component to COM, ie :C position..Then you will be able to move mass forward coming off the Apex to the hookup...Keeping your shoulders and head level, looking down course, and sliding COM to the handle, will create acceleration.....Acceleration equals speed, and speed allows you to ski into angle.

    However, if you are carrying excess speed into the turn, shooting through the Apex, the result can be deceleration into the hookup. Sort of a "Hockey Stop." Then the acceleration has to start from that point, which is not efficient.

    I believe the term, "Carrying speed through the turn," can be a little misleading..Since Apex is defined as a change in direction, it should also be the slowest point, and the point where cross course acceleration begins..Proper control of COM off the Apex and again at the hookup is paramount. The key being, it's not lean against the boat that gives you acceleration, but lean in the direction of travel that gives you acceleration.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
    A_B
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    Come on Bruce, a little Kilo Kai in the tea never hurts!
    Brady
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    @Bruce_Butterfield
    My question is:
    Is this something @matthewbrown thinks about as a primary concept or if it is a by product / made easy by his unusually calm upper body. Lets say that Matt is really concentrating on his shoulders and or spine alignment, a level head maybe a natural result.

    Matt feel free to chime in since we are talking about you.

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    @AB and @Bruce_Butterfield are you telling me that if I bribe you with high quality spiced rum you will post better stuff? This could set a bad precedent but I will talk to the Kilo Kai fairy http://www.kilokai.com/

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  • matthewbrownmatthewbrown Posts: 308 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    My first thought is to stay up and open in the gate turn while staying in alignment moving my hips and shoulders inside the carving arc. As the line gets tight ideally I’m trying to move my mass ahead with my hips and knees as my shoulders stay open and I try to apply as much pressure as possible on my trailing arm(left arm) into one ball. The rest happens naturally all on it’s own. You can see the ski accelerate as soon as the second hand gets back on the handle and pressure is applied. If you try to apply pressure on the lead arm(right arm into one ball) you will not get the same acceleration as your body becomes static and is not able to be dynamic. Unfortunately, as the line gets shorter this becomes harder and harder to execute unless your last name is Smith. Trailing arm pressure is the most efficient and effective way to ski, it’s just that none of us were taught this and when we do try it, it usually is not done correctly. I figure if I can perfect it at 32, then I could do it on 5 out of 6 turns at 35, 4 out of 6 at 38, 3 out of 6 at 39..etc…
    A_Bjipster43BradyJdubs9400
  • matthewbrownmatthewbrown Posts: 308 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @bruce_butterfield nice observation with the eyes. @horton I do think the eyes level are a byproduct of body mechanics. also, watching someone else do this technique like Terry Winter and Marcus Brown has helped engrain it in my head and remind me that I still have a long way to go.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    @matthewbrown, I have always loaded leading arm and last season started playing around with shifting load to trailing arm behind the boat, and I did see added width because of it. I will have to try a sooner load when we finally hit the water. Thanks for providing the info.
    jipster43
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,071 Mega Baller
    Horton, I'm insulted that you would even ask such a question. Of course I can be bribed.

    Matt, I was guessing that eyes level was pretty well engrained and you didn't think about it much. That was one of the points I was trying to make - when you automatically have fundamental alignment, it is much easier to focus on the hard stuff - trailing arm, handle control, moving COM, etc. And its easy to do things right when you have lots of rope;)
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    edited March 2013
    @RAL, why the off topic flag? I was thanking Matthew for changing my thought about something in this thread.
  • ralral Posts: 1,674 Mega Baller
    @AB, probably Iphone accident. Never intended to do it.
    Rodrigo Andai
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,595
    @ral...If you just click on it again, it will erase it, and not be part of his permanent profile.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
    A_Bjlittle
  • DWDW Posts: 1,578 Crazy Baller
    edited April 2013
    Visual focus is a key in several sports, bicycle racers start looking down when getting tired (and slowing down), fast sports such as motorsports looking way ahead is important and one big key was looking way ahead on a banked track (which entails looking up and to the left) to avoid running in to a crashing vehicle that when watching on TV looks like a driver never tried to avoid when not looking far enough ahead. It also is a key to keeping the relative speed in check, look to close and stuff speeds up and you lose control.
    Back arm pressure seems to assist one in keeping the COM a bit forward, maybe it's as simple as a subtle shove in the butt or elbow on the vest.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    @Bruce_Butterfield and @AB

    The Pirates from Kilo Kai think you might deserve a bottle each.
    If you will both email your mailing addresses I will see if I can organize a shipment.

    Horton@BallOfSpray.com

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    A_B
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    edited April 2013
    @matthewbrown Let me break this down in terms of my personal confusion

    Sentence # 1
    "My first thought is to stay up and open in the gate turn while staying in alignment moving my hips and shoulders inside the carving arc."

    I actually understand this!

    Sentence # 2
    "As the line gets tight ideally I’m trying to move my mass ahead with my hips and knees as my shoulders stay open and I try to apply as much pressure as possible on my trailing arm(left arm) into one ball."

    Trailing arm? Holy crap not two weeks ago I went on a rampage telling skiers this was a well-intended by wacky idea. Maybe you guys already saw http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/112785

    I swear last year @Mapple or @TFIN or someone a lot smarter than me commented that I should take the power in my leading arm off the second wake and just get it done.

    Matt, you run more than 6 balls more than I do. How important do you think this concept is?

    Sentence # 3 & 4
    "The rest happens naturally all on it’s own. You can see the ski accelerate as soon as the second hand gets back on the handle and pressure is applied."

    To my great relief I understand

    Sentence # 5
    "If you try to apply pressure on the lead arm(right arm into one ball) you will not get the same acceleration as your body becomes static and is not able to be dynamic."

    I hate that his makes sense I just do not know if it is practical for me to work on.



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  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    @Horton, did you try shifting to trailing arm like discussed somewhere out here?
    Just do one ball as it takes some thought and when the line gets short, conscious thought is fleeting, at least with me.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,823 Administrator
    @AB

    I confess my question for Matt is not really about the gate.

    In the case of my gate, I think I do better if I do not bury my shoulder going into the wakes but to keep my outbound I seem to do a lot better if I focus on power my right hand.

    How many hours is it from Bako to Chico?

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  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    I know John, but I literally could only start doing this on the first pull, which happens to be the gates. My freaking brain goes dead at one ball.
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,153 Crazy Baller
    @Horton - it's not far if you drive like we used to when I was on the CSUChico team. Not far at all. It's a heck of lot closer than Chico to Horton's which we use to do all the time. Thank you very much.

    Re: trailing arm pressure. Which arm coming into 1 ball is going to be on the handle when you release with your right hand? (hint: your right hand is on your lead arm). Don't you want there to still be pressure (or just think tight line) on that arm going into 1 or do you just let the line and handle go loose?
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,783 Mega Baller
    Jim, on the way to one, when you pull the handle into your hip with your left hand, the right hand is still on the handle, probably helps balance and coming up out of your lean, but if you keep loading the pressure on it, you will run a narrower path. The pressure on the handle should go quite a bit lower than what is exerted right behind the boat, but the left should be taking more of it after the second wake. I think guys that get a ton of angle early, like Matthew or any of the top guys, begin this sooner than normal short line skiers, so they think about doing it a lot faster. I need the right arm load to initiate the angle of attack, which is going to limit moving COM forward into the wakes. I think trying to load with more trailing arm out of the ball would be good, if you set the ski on the correct angle into the wakes. I am old and stiff, so can't rotate the hips under my waist like I did on the dance floor years ago...
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