Everything you need to know about Zero Off for 2013

HortonHorton Posts: 24,630 Administrator
edited July 2013 in Classic Threads

Presentations courtesy of Will Bush  

ZERO OFF CLINIC:

http://www.usawaterski.org/speedcontrol/zerooffpresentation.pdf

 


 

NAUTIQUE CLINIC SUPPLEMENT (screen shots of new Nautique display)

http://www.usawaterski.org/speedcontrol/NautiqueLINCZOPresentation.pdf

 

NAUTIQUE ZERO OFF USERS MANUAL

http://www.usawaterski.org/speedcontrol/NautiqueLINCZOUserManual.pdf

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Jody_SeallathompsonJoelHowley
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Comments

  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,254 Mega Baller
    edited April 2013
    Big Thanks to Will Bush for putting this together. It answers a lot of questions and also provides proper operation guidance for the laymen!

    Also thanks John for posting it, and on the front page too.
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,930
    Awesome!!!! That is great. There was a lot of talk out there saying that the "+" setting negated the number you chose; but, obviously that rumor was incorrect. It has made me rethink what I want to try with the new "+" setting. I have been on C2; but, now I am thinking A2+ or B2+.
    Bob Grizzi
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    @skibug....For years I have been a C2 guy, 6'4" @220#......After switching to Rev. R I became a B2+....I Love the plus setting....It is stronger, but it seems like a delay before the "Stronger " comes in...C2+ was way to strong though.

    The gates are an improvement, however, I feel the main advantage is it gives you time from the hookup to get leveraged, then it will come in stronger, but that is an advantage at that point. Also, C2+ felt faster at the gates and I carried way to much speed through the course, finding it hard to slow down at the ball.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,693 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    It should not be this complicated... I mean seriously, I am all for being able to make some adjustments to how it feels for a 100# girl vs. a 205# gorilla, but holy crap. (I still have a flip phone so my opinion is probably not the norm)
    DanEdanbirch
  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,930
    @Ed_Johnson, thanks for the information. I am 195# and tend to be very heavy off the ball. Ever since I started skiing with ZO I jumped between B3 and C2. I was looking for a B2+ or C2-. I wanted the firmness with a little more delay (based on C2) on the pick up. What you describe is what I think I want. I tried C2+ when I thought that the number had no bearing on the ZO setting when "+" was chosen and that was too strong; so, I never went back a fooled with it. I liked the gate, 1, 2, but by 3 ball I felt like I was chasing the boat. Now, with a better understanding of what "+" really does and your feed back, I will go out tomorrow and try A2+ and B2+.
    Bob Grizzi
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    i read about half way through and my head started to hurt
    JoelHowleydanbirch
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,325 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    Thanks Will! Great info - especially for a coach.

    Hmmm, maybe I should try C1+?

    Eric
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    @skibug....Let us know what you feel with the other settings..I would like to know if it was the samething I felt..I have an eye operation later this afternoon and will be off the water for a while.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    I'm now more confused than I ever was. I understand that ZO is load based and not location based but my mind tells me that we ski with a progressive pull getting heavier on the line as we get closer to the wake. If that's not true, maybe that's where my confusion comes from...

    I originally thought letter A reacted closer to the first wake (when your pull is strongest) and let off closer to the next ball (when you're completely free of the boat) while letter C came on closer to the ball you just went around (when you first start to pull) and let off closer to the second wake (when you initially start letting off your pull). The way I read that presentation is A reacts closer to the first wake and lets off closer to the second wake but only makes a slight engine correction while C reacts closer to the ball you just went around and lets off closer to the next ball and makes a large engine correction. The way I read the presentation makes it sound like A will never maintain speed and C will always be going 90 mph down the course.

    I'm obviously misinterpretting something.
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,129 Crazy Baller
    It doesnt have to be confusing because you dont need to know how it works. The engineers among us me included love this stuff. How about a software program where i can customize my pull profile with a smart phone app. Call it ball of ZO pulls. Ok only kidding

    Just do a few blind tests and see what feels best and gives you more consistent scores. i dont understand people who select B2 blindly and never even try anything else
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    I guess I am an engineer and maybe that's why I feel I need to know. My problem is I don't get to ski ZO enough to actually know what's going on until it's almost too late. So when I get on a boat I'm not used to, the first pass I'm out of control because the wake isn't what I expected. The second pass feels odd but I figure I did something funny at the beginning. Then the third pass comes and I realize it's not what I'm doing, it's what the boat is doing that's weird to me. Now I'm on my harder passes trying to figure out what ZO is doing and how to adjust. I guess I could dedicate a couple sets to experimenting but that just seems like a waste of valuable fun time.
  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,930
    edited April 2013
    @Ed_Johnson....First of all, I hope the surgery went well and your health is good.

    OK, B2+ both sets tonight. This may be the ticket. The biggest difference for me will be adjusting to all three gate elements; pull out, glide, and turn in. The pull out was definitely more firm which affected my timing on the glide and turn in. I don't think this will be an issue with a couple of more sets. In the course it felt great, even when I was in scramble mode. It is just a touch later than C2; but with the same firm pull. I think the ramp up / ramp down on the pull is solid and doesn't feel like I am chasing it so much. I can't quite put my finger on it yet; but, I think that split second later hook up allows my ski to come around a little more before the boat gets me. This seemed to allow me to ski a little more centered; not having to be rushed and ready for the initial hit of the boat; before the ski came all the way around. I am looking forward to my next time out to see if I feel the same way about it.
    Bob Grizzi
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    @skibug.....Thanks for the info...You are confirming what I felt, which is a good feeling..The fact that it allows you to get leveraged "Before" the magnitude of ZO inflicts it's revenge on you is the magic....I believe B2+ is the max setting I can sustain at this point and the right balance...Keep the feedback coming...THX EJ
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • TeamWallyTeamWally Posts: 119 Baller
    Great info, thanks for clarifying the muddy waters. If i understand correctly instead of 9 abc 123 choices times 4 major boat companies, one with big block and small block offerings I now have at least 72 possible choices when I ski at tournaments. That does not include any "unsanctioned prop changes" promo boat guys may have made from week to week. Please give me a break. I am prone to disagree with the statement concerning ZO not gassing you. Listen to a boat without a skier running up the course, better yet watch the tach. Bottom line it's a lot easier to stay at my lake, enjoy the boat we have and get a consistent ski ride each set. If I drink the " I only go to tournaments to ski against myself koolaid" the simple answer is why bother. I skied with a pretty smart guy a few weeks ago who said only old guys and college kids ski anymore, the later because of the party after. I think he was right. If we as a group want to simplify and promote the spot lets go back to ONE setting and only one setting.. It is what it is. You either ski it or you don't.
    Waternut
  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,630 Administrator
    I don't read any of this stuff. B2+ Go!

    Ok yes I need to read it ...

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  • MSMS Posts: 4,486 Mega Baller
    B1 and go ski.
    Shut up and ski
  • skibugskibug Posts: 1,930
    B2+ again tonight for one set. It was good, felt like last night but even better now that the gate pull out and timing are coming along. I guess this setting is just letting me get a little more angle out the ball. I still don't understand 100% what is going on. I know I feel the boat on me later out of the ball; yet the pull is firm enough to support my load and stays on me just through the second wake. This makes me feel more connected to the boat than C2 when I am heading outbound from the second wake. It seems like just enough to keep the line tighter. C2 seems to drop me off quicker, earlier and leaves me with a little loose feeling outbound. I have to go back and read Will Bush's explanation.
    Bob Grizzi
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    Jack Daugherty, Senior Driver and Big Dawg Driver, came by today with his new 2013 CC200 6L, that he just got from Miami SN, on his way back to Missouri..His first time skiing behind the PLUS...Was a C2 Guy and now a convinced convert to B2+...Absolutely Loved it after the first pass..Exact words, "Man you can really lay into this" and "So early at the Buoy."

    Interestingly, his had a 422 Prop on it with the 6L...Mine is a 2011 CC200 6L with a 654 Prop...The pull behind his was fantastic...Perfect balance when the power came in..At times, mine can overpower you...Ran my PB for this year with only one set..Will try again tomorrow, then it's off for eye surgery and no water time for a while..Bummer...Hope to find out tomorrow if this prop really makes as much difference as I felt today.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,947 Mega Baller
    put it on A1+ and go ski - @teamwally - you sound like a guy who's tired of not skiing well at tournaments when the pressure is on
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,838
    edited May 2013
    @teamwally And yet almost every tournament in the SCR has been full the last few years. So obviously, ZO isn't effecting things too badly.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • DWDW Posts: 1,706 Crazy Baller
    Very nice presentation.
  • thompjsthompjs Posts: 523 Solid Baller
    I tried A2+ instead of C1+ and it felt a lot better. I was getting yanked out of one ball on C1+.
  • TeamWallyTeamWally Posts: 119 Baller
    @richarddoane I seem to do pretty well at some Richard. I am tired of inconsistent pulls and overly complex speed control . So far this year I've skied behind one of Badals dialed in ex promos, a new TXI malibu, our lake boat with ZO and my vintage Nautique with PP classic. None of them were surprising in any way. @shaneh I've skied at Jacks once or twice, you boys and girls know how to put on good show.
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,947 Mega Baller
    @teamwally - nice conditions in that pic, where is that ?
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • LeonLLeonL Posts: 2,040 Crazy Baller
    I just upgraded to RevR and really didn't notice whether it is 100R or 102R. Didn't expect there to be such. Will doesn't go into any detail about that. I need to look at the boat this afternoon and see. What's the difference? I do know that my version DOES NOT have the options of engine selection, TORM, or Prop. I just got the upgrade file two weeks ago and my version would seem to be a lower level than what the screen shots indicate. If it makes a difference, I have a 2008 SN 196.
    Leon Leonard Stillwater Lake KY - SR Driver SR Judge
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,838
    @LeonL Nautique has specific versions, as they didn't want to give the user the ability to change things like prop. Also, only certain versions allow you two changes to engine selection. I believe versions for the 196 only allowed you to set engine type at initial startup and then never again.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • TeamWallyTeamWally Posts: 119 Baller
    edited May 2013
    @richarddoane Eric Pettingers, Villa Lagos near Corning Ca Just south of Red Bluff, 2 lakes one to ski with islands etc, one for board sports with sliders and no pesky islands. Oh yeah, also a 1/8 mile banked oval for outlaw sprint carts.
    ski-lake.com
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,992 Mega Baller
    Bump. Been having a lot of questions this year on the tournament dock.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,722 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Shoot, I have 5-6 course passes this year. All but one on PP classic, one on ZO Charlie 2. ZO was easier than PP. I'm not where I want to be, but the more technically correct I ski the less the speed control matters. Having said that as a keep it simple stupid guy...all this variation is ridiculous. Give us a 16.96 every time in one form or another and in short order we will all be just fine.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,838
    Couple of things for nautique owners with ZO integrated into the Linc2 screen.........
    1. Segments have been renumbered. Whereas ZO previously numbered the segments 0-5, in the integrated screen they are numbered 1-6. It causes confusion at tournaments because the drivers are calling out incorrect times. It's going to take some getting used to.

    2. If you make a change in the user screen but don't save it, you will see "altered" in the upper left corner of the screen. This took forever to figure out.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

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