Should we change the gate rule - Advanced Topics Version

HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
edited July 2013 in Advanced Topics

Should we change the gate rule - Advanced Topics Version 67 votes

The rule is fine the way it is
32%
DWChef23Ham_WallaceRichardDoaneBoneHeadLeonLDragoStevie BoyNick SullivanJody_Sealraljayski6ballsDustyjackskiklindyricoRynoRazorRoss3Brady 22 votes
We should say the skier has to go to the left of the ball – like in the old days
2%
dvskiingjRoe 2 votes
Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
31%
HortontsixamMarcodislandSMA_BKelvinAlvin_Neffjimbrake[Deleted User]Ed_JohnsonSherwoodPat Mchris_loganDUSkierMSKlundellrodbTFINMoggie 21 votes
Some new rule that allows the skier to go right of the current ball
32%
scotchipmanBruce_ButterfieldThan_BoganSethskidanbirchBulldogjipster43skiinxsski4xtcsmanskibishop8950MickeyThompsondbskiJoeMacBruceEmerybdoughertyGregDaviswski1831BG1footloose42 22 votes

Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

Reflex / Radar /Stokes

«1

Comments

  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    There is a lot of talk about his.
    I am not sure if skiers really want this or there are a few that are making a lot if noise.
    I am pinging the 44 skiers that are currently listed for the Advanced Topics group. Let’s see what they think.

    @6balls
    @AB
    @Alvin Neff
    @bishop8950
    @brooks
    @Bruce_Butterfield
    @Bruce55
    @Chad Scott
    @chrisrossi
    @DaveLemons
    @Dirt
    @Drago
    @DUSkier
    @DW
    @Ed_Johnson
    @Ham Wallace
    @jdarwin
    @jimbrake
    @Klundell
    @MAD11
    @Mapple
    @Marco
    @MarcusBrown
    @matthewbrown
    @MrJones
    @MS
    @OB
    @ral
    @richarddoane
    @rico
    @ripa38
    @schroed
    @scoke
    @scotchipman
    @Sethski
    @ShaneH
    @skidawg
    @skiep
    @TFIN
    @Than_Bogan
    @Triplett
    @tsixam
    @twhisper
    @Wish

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

  • KlundellKlundell Posts: 432 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    @Horton I like it.
  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    @Klundell I do not see your vote

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    Agree with the part, "If it's close it's good." Especially at 41 off. Being wide at 41 is not going to help you, and the wider boats absolutely effect the gate ball...Benifit should go to the skier on a close call.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    @Ed_Johnson I wrote that option badly. What I mean is if under review it is hard to tell let it go. If you miss it you miss it and the rules have always stated that you need to go between the balls.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    What Alvin said!

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

    Alvin_Neff
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    edited July 2013
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    Agree with the between the buoys rule....However, it seems some judges pour over video, measuring in Centimeters, looking for a reason to take it away from the skier. If it's that close, give it to the skier. Especially at the really short line lengths, when the boat does effect buoy position.

    PS: A really clear miss should be obvious.
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
    KcSwerver
  • KlundellKlundell Posts: 432 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    Fixed it.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 938 Crazy Baller
    The rule is fine the way it is
    I feel the actual rule is close to being fine the way it is, however, the center if ski thing is absurd. Just don't touch it at all. Likewise cameras all over the place (absurd). I said this somewhere else, but a mulligan rule similar to an opt up rule might work (gotta run the next full pass). Should be called within , say , 15 seconds. MLB doesn't even use video review, sheesh.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 938 Crazy Baller
    The rule is fine the way it is
    Sorry @Horton, I guess I should've answered " left of the ball", the old days part made me glaze over that option
  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    13 to 4 so far. Hmmmm

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,947 Mega Baller
    The rule is fine the way it is
    run a safe entry gate, it's not that difficult, get rid of the cameras IMO, Judge call if missed, otherwise benefit to the skier
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    Horton6balls
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,721 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The rule is fine the way it is
    agree with @richardoane
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,862 Mega Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    I like no video at all except elite events where there is money or National titles on the line. The video should be reviewed once and it should be obvious the skier wasn't in compliance, if it is that hard to tell, call it good. The skier should also not be asked to sit in water for,more than his 30 seconds. They should begin skiing the next pass. If the review isn't completed before the next skier hits the water, the score stands. Head to head would need an exception on time to wait, as the next skier needs to know what score has been approved.

    I think a pair of binoculars in the judges towers should be standard issue at every event.
  • DUSkierDUSkier Posts: 134 Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    This was my suggestion after Moomba, however review should be done at normal speed and if a definite decision cannot be made call it good. I also believe Cameras should be at a certain height to make view clearer, I could be wrong on this and would have to read up, but in the rules there is no stipulation for a camera height, there is however for a judges tower??
    Nigel Sparrow
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
    Some new rule that allows the skier to go right of the current ball
    It was hard for me to vote, because I don't have a strong conviction amongst these options.

    What I DO strongly feel is that we should ditch the cameras and the reviews. Require a decent view of the gate, and make it explicit that you give it to the skier unless you are SURE he/she missed it.

    I judged some rounds of an L last year, so I had that better-than-class-C view. I 0ed two gates (on the same poor guy although his 3rd round was a great score) due to a completely obvious miss. He had no complaints; all 3 judges on that end 0ed the gate both times.

    Hm, that brings up an interesting possibility. What if we just ask people to call their "best guess" (as usual) and then the gate counts unless ALL THREE judges on that end 0 it. (Or in a Class C, both would have to.)

    If three qualified folks are watching your gate and not one of them thinks you made it, I would think there is little cause for protest? And this doesn't require video and doesn't cause those horrible delays.

    Haven't thought it through that much, but at first blush it seems like a good idea.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MarcoMarco Posts: 1,386 Crazy Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    "If it is close, it is good". Thats the key point. There is no way to be accurate judging which side of the centerline of a round object the ski passes over at high speed, and a "miss" by an inch or two has zero effect on the skiers ability to run the pass. If there is any question that the gate was made or not, it should be judged as a good gate. A miss should need to be ovious and without question.
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 946 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    Some new rule that allows the skier to go right of the current ball
    I think we should at least go to "one review" but even better if we can get over the gates. To do this we need a proposal and there have been many lately, I don't have a better one.

    Last year at Nationals I ran 39 but my gate was very tight. Towers gave it to me upon first review of video. Splash eye reviewed it several times and overruled the towers. I floated for what seemed like 5 minutes during the deliberations. I do not feel treated unfairly because that was he way it was supposed to go according to the rules at that time. But I believe there is a better way.
    Than_BoganKcSwerverMoggie
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
    Some new rule that allows the skier to go right of the current ball
    To clarify one thing: I am personally fine with using video to ratify a world record, but it shouldn't be used during the tournament to affect the results.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,862 Mega Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    May it should just be if you are right of the gate it is a miss. If you hit it, go over the top, etc, its good.
    The misses by an inch would probably count on visual, but the foot misses will get called out.
  • skidawgskidawg Posts: 3,126 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    One thing that no one typically addresses: A shortline skier doesn't gain an advantage by missing the gates on the right side (actually if you are to early, it is a disadvantage). Also, why should a skiers successful pass be pulled if you miss the gates on the late side (definate disadvantage), but the rules say its a zero. Food for thought.....?
    Mr. Mom is Horton's favorite movie!
    danbirchDanESethski
  • DUSkierDUSkier Posts: 134 Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    @skidawg so why are the pros cutting the gate so fine????? If it is no advantage why not aim for the middle??? Obviously I do not ski at these super short line lengths, but believe there must be an advantage otherwise they would not be so close to the right hand ball. the only time I could see it being a disadvantage is if the skier leans too long (which is not the fault of the gate) which would have them carrying too much speed, same as anyone learning a new pass..
    Nigel Sparrow
    ScarletArrow
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,171 Mega Baller
    Some new rule that allows the skier to go right of the current ball
    I am adamantly opposed to this one:Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good for 2 reasons: 1) Many times the first review is changed and it takes multiple reviews to really determine if its "good", and 2) How close is "close"? This is no better than the current situation. One of the biggest problems is that many times the buoy is hidden by the boat's spray and very difficult to see to begin with.

    Like Skidawg said, there is no real advantage to missing the gates by a few inches, so why penalize the skier? It is not giving him an advantage over the other competitors. The best solution is to not score the entrance gates.
    If it was easy, they would call it wakeboarding.
    BG1scotchipmanSethski
  • jdarwinjdarwin Posts: 1,379 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    The best solution is to not score the entrance gates. Bruce - the gates don't "score" - they are simply "judged". I completely agree with your opinion but I wanted to clarify that because it is an important distinction that supports your argument. I have said for years that the gates should not be judged because they don't "score". Go thru the gates and drop the handle and your score is "zero" - therefore, why are they even judged and why should the skier be penalized for not going thru them?
    Joe Darwin
    Skoot1123Sethski
  • HortonHorton Posts: 24,622 Administrator
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    @Bruce_Butterfield

    Darn engineers! Ok I wrote that badly. What I mean by “Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good” is … If the judges have to look twice or are not sure then it is good. If the skier clearly misses it is a ZERO.

    A lot of the problem with the current rules is the judge simple cannot tell. We need to eliminate endless video review but I still think ultimately the skier needs to go between the gates.

    Sort of like tie goes to the runner.

    Ooooo so I confess this is really my preference.

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

    Babes / Barts / Connelly / D3 / DBSkis / Goode / HO Syndicate

    MasterCraft / Masterline / O'Brien / Performance Ski and Surf

    Reflex / Radar /Stokes

  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 1,716
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    The problem seems to be when it takes a group of Judges, reviewing, over and over, down to the slightest Micro-Nano-Inch, holding up the entire Tournament..For God Sakes, if it is that close, just "GIVE IT TO THE SKIER."

    Should be a unanimous decision that it was a "CLEAR MISS," and not a "MICRO MISS."
    Loving the Reflex Supershell with R Style Rear !!!
    Horton
  • DUSkierDUSkier Posts: 134 Baller
    Something like the current rule or old rule but add that there can be only ONE review from the judges AND if it is close it is good
    ummm,,, so pull out later at the 55's. This is what anyone would do if they are regularly on the right hand ball and getting correct width, speed and angle. obviously this all gets harder as the line gets shorter but that's why they are pro skiers and I'm sitting here in Australia freezing my butt off =)
    Nigel Sparrow
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.