Just wondering: How the #@%# do you run 10.75m/-39.5?

Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
edited August 2013 in Advanced Topics
I've actually heard some folks say that -38 and -39 have similar characteristics. But this week I've had a huge (equipment) breakthrough at -38, running it three straight, and I still have absolutely no chance at -39. It's a victory if I eek the ski outside of 2. I don't expect to start running it soon, of course, but since I'm not even "in it" for a moment, I was hoping some of the amazing skiers in the Advanced Topics world could throw some general pointers on things to consider when trying to learn 10.75m/39.5.

I am also eventually planning to post a bit of video for specific coaching, but I think general concepts may be useful to quite a few of us who every-so-often run 11.25m and are completely outclassed at 10.75m. (Holy half meter, Batman.)
Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan


  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    Thanks to those who pointed out that I wrote 10.25m in a few places the first time! I've fixed that. My rope doesn't even go to 10.25/-41, so I'm not working on THAT just yet :).
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,721 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Great skiing @than. The times I have been "in" 39 I played it just like 38. Having said that, I've never run it with 3 being PB but gate, 1 and 2 have been great at times and felt like "here we go".
    Again great work on the 38s!
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • WishWish Posts: 7,071 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @bishop8950 do you find yourself doing these things at 38 as well?. I feel like I am over skiing the pass and pulling past the second wake....often. Are you talking a full edge change or the beginning of the process?
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • A_BA_B Posts: 3,862 Mega Baller
    The edge change is really the key. When I ski with my Big Dawg friend, I watch his edge change and load going into the wake. Tells the story.
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 946 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @wish I do try to do these things at every pass. I find that I can screw it up at 32/35 and see little impact because there is enough rope. At 38, when I do it right the pass is clean and when I do it wrong I still run it but not clean. At 39 if I screw it up I will almost certainly miss the pass.

    I feel like its the beginning of the process somewhere between the centerline and 2nd wake. If I am on my outside edge (left side of the ski going to 2/4) in the foam past the 2nd wake its over...too long.

    For me to make it happen correctly, I am thinking about my edge change to 2 ball when my second hand hits the handle out of one ball. Load to unload is all one continuous move that I try to make happen white water to white water.
  • WishWish Posts: 7,071 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    @bishop8950 I just looked at a vid of me from this morning at 38...... pulling way to long. Will give this a go in the am. Thank YOU!
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,835
    Than, please don't take this wrong. But I've seen the video of you running 38. Unless you've fixed your body position, what will be holding you back from 39 1/2 is your position entering the first wake. In that video, your shoulders and head get ahead of your hips, the handle comes out and then you take a shallower path to the next buoy than you would if your hips were driving ahead.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • matthewbrownmatthewbrown Posts: 318 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    @bishop8950 is spot on, however...... utterly useless conversation without video
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 946 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    a few more thoughts while I avoid work...

    I think shortline is way more about what you do side to side than the turn. If your focus is the right moves side to side, and you get that right, the turn is easy. If you blow it side to side you don't have a chance in the turn.

    We often talk about how the edge change is a result not an action. I totally agree. So to have the desired edge change result, you first have to get to the apex properly, then move from the apex into the load (back side of your turn) and then move into the acceleration properly. Only if you get that right can you let the edge change happen as planned. What helped me to simplify all of this was to have the move side to side be my dominating focus. Get over the buoys.

    @wish if you give this a shot make sure it happens through the gate and into one. Then keep it going out of one and so on. If the gate isn't right, you cant have the right one ball. Let me know how it goes?

    @ShaneH is right, if the body position wont let you execute fix that first!
  • bishop8950bishop8950 Posts: 946 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    agree with @matthewbrown, we need video. How about both @wish and @than_bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 5,750 Mega Baller
    edited August 2013
    @ShaneH I don't take that the wrong way at all. Indeed, it's an opportunity. (I may or may not be able to take advantage of it, but it's an opportunity!) And I saw the same thing in both my previous and recent successful -38 videos.

    My new video of me running -38 is even worse, actually, although I hope I can place a small bit of blame on a non-ideal boat-path from a driver with limited deep-shortline experience.

    Frankly I'm totally amazed that someone with such a poor leverage position can run -38! And while my head position in the turn has actually improved a little, that's only because it was pretty much resting on my inside should before!! If I saw this recent video online and the person claimed to be running -38, my first thought would be Dr. Jim: the buoys are narrow or the rope is long. (I'm nearly sure neither of those is true...)

    I swear I'm going to post this stuff eventually, but I don't quite understand how to get from what my videographer has to youtube, and it's not a super-high priority to figure out. When I finally do get that, I'm going to put it in a "regular" thread, as I think there are many who can make insightful comments who may not currently be running as many buoys as I am.

    But all that said, I'm also interested in "general principals" of -39.5 -- things that only those who run it regularly know. I strongly suspect they exist, and it seems that some are already emerging above.

    Fixing my own litany of form problems would obviously be helpful, but we also must rememeber that I am awfully unathletic when considered against the pool of folks who can run -38. (I'm a bit more athletic against the pool of folks who can write efficient assembly code for a TI DSP, but that's not very helpful!) So the plain truth is there's a lot I may not be able to fix, and perhaps learning something about the rope length can help me make a little progress anyhow.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • KlundellKlundell Posts: 432 Open or 55K Rated Skier
    I'm loving this thread. I've started to feel "in" 39 for the first time the last couple of weeks. I've gotten to four ball a bunch of times and today I even got there on time but choked when I realized I had a shot to run the pass for the first time.

    @bishop8950 I loved this comment. "Shortline is way more about what you do side to side than the turn." The biggest thing that has gotten me through 38 consistently and now into 39 is getting in better position to create leverage. At 39 if you give any energy back to the boat from white water to center you are done and if you don't get enough leverage to create a lot of speed from white water to center you won't be able to get off the edge early enough to get on the correct arc and you will be done. I've never felt so good and at one ball and so done at the next like I do if I make a mistake at 39. The margin for error is just gone.
  • DragoDrago Posts: 938 Crazy Baller
    I don't need no stinkin' video ;) you're pulling too long, especially into 1, and you are letting go of the handle too early.
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