Who coaches this technique?

MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
edited November 2013 in Technique & Theory
Whenever I come into the buoy with my handle down low, everyone tells me to get my handle up. image
Shut up and ski
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Comments

  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,979 Mega Baller
    Ah yes the "posting" move.
    I think I have a good idea of how/what it does. BUT Ill let the local knowledge base get into the details.
  • BrewskiBrewski Posts: 353 Crazy Baller
    I see Nate doing it all the time. Must not be too bad of technique....
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    Are there any other photos of skiers looking like this at this point of the turn? Please post
    Shut up and ski
  • 94009400 Posts: 596 Crazy Baller
    I think you would find that Will Asher looks very similar as well.
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    Close but no cigar. Nates hand is usually well below his waist on his approach to the ball.
    Shut up and ski
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,979 Mega Baller
    @MS everyone does it differently..
  • WishWish Posts: 7,714 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited November 2013
    The thing I notice is that all the lines are reasonably tight and ALL of the lines are perfectly parallel to the waters surface. I bet the line rarely goes below that or above it and this goes back to the flatter ski discussion. Nates just appears more pronounced with his palm facing down.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • MattPMattP Posts: 5,979 Mega Baller
    @Wish I think you are headed in the right direction. And I agree Nate's is just more pronounced.
    Once you raise you arm and give it in to the boat you have moved your weight to the inside of the ski and your pivot point as moved higher causing you to initiate the turn. This posting move is allowing the skier to maintain their move down course still holding a tight line before starting the turn.
    Jack Kinne
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    @MattP I agree and it this works well for Nate. If you look at a sequence of photos going into and coming out of the ball, you will see that his handle pretty much stays where it is and his body arcs out until his handle and both shoulders are level with his eyesight right down the rope.
    Shut up and ski
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 6,028
    One thing I noticed while watching Nate at Katy 2 weeks ago was that he releases down low, but he doesn't start feeding the handle out when he releases. He keeps his arm bent and handle down and freezes his body as he's gliding out. He doesn't reach until he's much closer to the buoy. Matt Brown said this about him...........

    Watch Nate at 1,3,5...he does come in earlier and flatter but as the ski gets to the buoy line, he purposely pushes it out away from him(this is when he actually reaches from my perspective, although he's had only one hand on the handle for a while at this point), he kind of points the ski out toward the direction of the shoreline...this enables his body to move ahead and creates a ton of speed.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • WishWish Posts: 7,714 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    But there is also a reach up for all of us. At least there should be to keep that line parallel with the waters surface. You are slam dunking if the reach does not end up higher as the body becomes closer to being parallel with the water at full extention. Like @MS pointed out, Nates reach is now up to his eye level not waist level. To me it's type of handle control. Both in elimination of slack and maintaining level lines which I think allows them to move up on top of the ski. But its a split second and part of a full continuous move. Not isolated. Also these could all be shots of easy passes that are gimmys for these guys. Have no idea how they do it. But not convinced it is the silver bullet either (yet).
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,277 Mega Baller
    You guys are way too fixated on this. This is something that just happens as you release the handle. You know, to all of us world class, elite skiers.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    Mike McCormick told me to reach lower, especially on my off side (which is HARD), really helped me feed the line out better and maintain a tighter line into and out of the buoy. He had a lot of good tips for me, but that one I think I saw the most bang for the buck from. great coach.
  • skisprayskispray Posts: 145 Baller
    edited November 2013
    I think it's 1/2 technique and 1/2 illusion. I had a coach tell me to focus on feeding the handle directly out to the pylon and directly back in through my turn as a way to focus on handle control and when I watched video of myself doing so it looked like this 'posting' technique. It turned out that thinking about feeding the handle out horizontally resulted in a low release (for me anyway). So I think it's 'technique' in that it's good handle control. It's also illusion because a lot of the lanky guys (Nate, Mapple, Asher) all do this quite visibly. I think their long wingspan makes it look more special than it is.
  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    Always interesting. @MS -- I find that if I lift my handle up, my shoulders go down. I am far better off to let it be at waist height when I separate from the handle.
    Jim Ross
  • mwetskiermwetskier Posts: 1,329 Mega Baller
    an interesting thing i heard chet raley say was as you release to put the handle where your going to want it to be. if you reach up the boats force will pull it back down when you get to the apex and if you push it too low the boats going to pull it back up so maybe these guys are just doing it the way chet explains it.
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    @Razor everyone is always trying to get me to raise my handle up and out in front of me (If going to 1 ball, my left hand will point the handle up and towards 3 ball not the pylon)
    Shut up and ski
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    To me it appears that Whitney and Regina come into the ball with handle much higher.
    Shut up and ski
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,150 Administrator
    @MS
    whit and regina have their shoulders lower

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  • JohnCoxJohnCox Posts: 357 Crazy Baller
    I'm not quite as pronounced doing it, but it helps me control the line instead of just dumping it out. I think.
    Mapple T2
    www.mappleskis.com
    Wish
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    edited November 2013
    @MS I think you'll notice Whit's arm is higher only through 1-3-5 (LFF) when she is committed with 1 hand off the handle, NOT coming into the turn.

    I have skied with Jmac a bit and he has a similar style, he also keeps his handle in low and tight off the 2nd wake although not quite as low as Nate in those pics. I have a photo sequence from the shore of Jason showing this perfectly. Over the years I've noticed he has slowed down his reach a bit, or rather is smoother, he used to snatch and grab a lot more.

    different things work for different skiers, we all have our idiosyncrasies and do some things better than others. People telling you to raise your hand to me means they think you should have more level shoulders, but you'd have to ask them
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    I wish I could get on the water and check things out but we froze over this AM.

    Shut up and ski
  • alex38alex38 Posts: 474 Baller
    i thought i over heard a random pro saying he [himself] likes to think about keeping his arms straight, could that cause this look?
  • MISkierMISkier Posts: 2,522 Mega Baller
    In looking over the various photos offered on this thread, I think Nate's handle position looks more pronounced because he is standing tall on the ski and looking downcourse. He is not yet leaning into his turn and seems to do that much later than others. The handle is at the same approximate location (rope parallel to the water) as the other skiers here. But, his body position is dramatically different. Therefore, he appears to be holding the handle differently - because he is.

    Just my opinion.
    The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears.
  • MSMS Posts: 5,144 Mega Baller
    It is just something that I notice when I am watching Nate ski. It sticks out much more on his style then others.
    Shut up and ski
  • gator1gator1 Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    I think his COM is about 1.5 ft closer to the pylon than the other guys in the pictures. Assuming he's at 41 off, since angular momentum is proportional to square of radius, he is conserving about 10% more velocity by keeping his COM close to the pylon. Not surprisingly, since the rope is still tight, and therefore exerting a resultant force vector on his body, he is keeping the handle pretty much exactly at his COM. If it were higher it would be creating a rotational moment on his body and tip him in, putting the ski on edge and slowing it down.

    Watch a jumper in the air while the rope is still tight. Handle down even below COM to keep from getting tipped over.

    Once the rope goes slack, there is no more angular velocity to conserve. Now its all about trying to create effective rope length. By lining the pylon, hand, elbow, shoulder, neck and shoulder up, he moves his COM as far from the pylon as possible.

    Or, his spider arm just got too tired to hold the rope up in the air.

    Wishjipster43
  • WishWish Posts: 7,714 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    edited November 2013
    I thought i read somewhere that Nate does not like a super tight line at short line. It does not look all that tight. In the vid he comes off the second wake arms almost chest high. The push down starts just before the release of the hand. To do that, there cannot be that much if any load there. It is low that's for sure. But it is one continuous motion not a pause like the stills show. I think that's an important distinction. To answer @MS question, I have never been coached to do that nor have I heard of anyone coaching this way. I bet even Nate doesn't coach to do this.
    .
    .
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
    MSbishop8950
  • GOODESkierGOODESkier Posts: 1,107 Crazy Baller
    @JohnCox your smile on your pics is worth a million bucks! You couldn't coach a smile like that!
    2003 Nautique 196 LE Star Gazer & ZBox - GOODE NANO OneXT 66.75" - Powershell 5 (LFF) - Tournament PB: 2 Balls @ 39.5' OFF (34.2 MPH) on 7/18/2015 at BIG DAWG BROHO!

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