Are we allowed to talk about Jump?

ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
edited July 2012 in Jump
My son (11yo B2, 75lbs, 4'8") wants to start jumping. Mom and I used to get dragged over the ramp for the sake of collegiate team scores, but we never really were jumpers. So, we are pretty clueless about getting a youth started out correctly with appropriate gear.

Some questions:
1. What size skis are appropriate for a boy that size?
FYI - I've been told that the double-wrap, pro wiley's bindings are too much for a young jumper.

2. What type of bindings are appropriate?
Are 72" Connelly HC800's too big/heavy?

3. Are there any good articles about jumping fundamentals out there?

He is riding them and cutting back an forth, but I have no idea if his body position is correct or not. I told him, stay stacked and on the balls of your feet, head up, elbows in... I guess I could take some video or something.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
-- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
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Comments

  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,147 Crazy Baller
    I say "yes" we may talk about jump. For a kid starting out you can go with old school jumpers in the 68 to 72 inch range. Just well-fitting rubber bindings like slalom Wileys will be fine for how. Have you pulled him over the ramp at all yet? My son is B2 also and started last year before regionals. A couple of angled pulls over the corner just so they can feel what the ramp surface feels like on their skis, then some slow speed "plop" overs to start working on their balanced position on the ramp. The old "knees, trees, freeze" is still valid. What you told him sounds good, just add handle low and keep it there in the air, vision down the lake. Once he is comfortable and balanced on the plops, then you can have him start edging into the base and gradually move the speed up. Get coaching early and often to stay safe.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,919 Mega Baller
    haha...go off the corner first is traditional jump coaching. However it would be difficult to angle the boat enough at your place to make that work. The goal is to drive at approx a 45 degree angle to the ramp and let the skier just 'feel' the ramp by going over the corner. Go too high up the ramp and the left ski is much higher (and on the ramp longer) than the right which can make landings odd. So just let them get a feel for the hard, wet-ice on wet-ice surface a time or two then go for the gold.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • jimbrakejimbrake Posts: 1,147 Crazy Baller
    @kfennell. If you're a little kid, yes, you get to go over the corner. If you're 18 and in college (or not), you go over the top.

    I went to Suyderhoud's for the first time in '76 and he pulled me over the top the first time and by the third day he had me doing a 3/4 cut. I went home and started doing mad cuts at the ramp in a howling tailwind. I made it four seasons before I completely shredded my right knee. No one should go about it the way I did.
    "...all of the basic fun banter"
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    @ToddL - Bennetts has a wonderful program for jumpers like your son - thats how my son started. You could also check out what the Ski Bees are doing, they seem to get the young ones off to a good start.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • cwillygoodcwillygood Posts: 195 Baller
    I know people have had terrible experiences but Goodman makes awesome jumpers designed for little kids, yes they will be more than the old school ones and you might have to wait a while but there awesome
  • KelvinKelvin Posts: 949 Crazy Baller
    Bring him over to Katy. We have a mini jump just like the one at Bennett's. A few times over the small one and he will be ready for the big one.
    Kelvin Kelm, Lakes of Katy, Katy Texas
    ToddL
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 4,856 Mega Baller
    edited July 2012
    @ToddL for your son an old pair of 72s will work fine to get started. I agree with @cwillygood that the skis Goodman makes for kids are better but they are more money. My neighbor just got a pair of 78" Goodmans for his girls who are about the same size as your son and they are awesome skis.

    If you have a pair of 72s around they will work that is what my son is on.

    The position isn't really stacked like on a slalom ski. It is more weight on balls of feet and knees over toes. My son tends to ride the jumpers more like a slalom ski and that is a problem at the ramp.

    If you live near @Kelvin and can get him over the mini ramp that would be awesome. My son started when he was younger than your son but about the same size on the mini-ramp at Coble's Ski School and after he landed 5 in a row on the mini-ramp they let him go over the big jump and he landed 1 of his first 3.
    Mark Shaffer
    ToddL
  • usaski1usaski1 Posts: 643 Crazy Baller
    edited August 2012
    there's nothing that really gets my blood pumpin like jumpin'! Sorry to thread jack, but just thought you mike like to see this. I've been disabled my entire life, but still launch off the ramp.

    Mark Turner -- Water skiing changed my life forever.
    tsixam
  • Jody_SealJody_Seal Posts: 2,158 Mega Baller
    I cant say enough Ride the skis ! Youngsters when they start jumping commonly just strap em on and try and learn how to jump at their parents misguided guidence , well not such a good 'idea as these kids probably have not had two skis on for many years. This also goes for older skiers wanting to learn how to jump. getting good control and skiing position is for-most before going over the ramp. When the skier is ready to take that first leap it is good to have a well seasoned jumper to coach them through it. after that again ride the skis more than go over the ramp.
    If they decide it is something they want to get better at then get them good professional coaching.

    Jody Seal:
    Father of three time national jump champion Stephen "El Torro" Seal And W-1 jump sensation Monica "Dana California" Seal.
    Been their, got the "T" shirts!!!
    Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.


  • HortonHorton Posts: 23,681 Administrator
    I want to go on the record - "I have not read a word of this".

    Maybe Jody is in charge of BOS Jump

    Support BallOfSpray by supporting the companies that support BallOfSpray

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  • Ham_WallaceHam_Wallace Posts: 534 Solid Baller
    Jody is correct. Time on the skis is KEY! It is impossible to clock in quality time on a private slalom pond. It is time for rivers, big lakes and open water.ride the skis, launch over the wakes, learn to edge and make plenty of turns. Long jump pulls on a 75' rope are much more effort than short slalom pulls that are 8/10's of a second. Once Junior can clear BOTH wakes on the jump skis, then, it's time to go to the "big red wedge"! DO NOT tell him the day before he gets to go over it. He won't sleep the night before. (Still addicted after 47 years of jumping)
    Am I a jumper that wants to be a slalom skier? Or a slalom skier that wants to be a jumper?
    TylerR
  • BoneHeadBoneHead Posts: 5,807
    When I was learning, Charles told when I could run the slalom course at 34mph on my 90 inchers, then I had enough control to go over the ramp. It took me half the summer to get there, but it was a blast.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    edited August 2012
    This is all great!!!! @jody seal = BOSJ

    Mark ( @usaski1 ) - Loved the video!

    Matt has been riding them a lot. He is so pumped to learn about the mini ramp at Lakes of Katy! Thanks, @Kelvin

    I need to invest in some wiley slalom bindings for him. The adult Lrg Pro Wraps are just sloppy big and have released once during a funky turn around 6-ball (yes, I mentioned a slalom course, so maybe @Horton will read this some). Matt has been skiing around at about 24.9 MPH and at 15 off, simply because he likes to take a jump ride right after his slalom set. I'll start putting him on the jump line, though.

    BTW, by "stacked", I meant - ankles bent, knees in front of ankles, hips over ankles, shoulders over hips, head up. I did talk to him about being on the balls of his feet. He giggled and said, ...balls..." Yep... I do know that when the time comes to hit the ramp, there are some keys to success: Knees, Trees, and Freeze; Lean forward into the jamp; balls of the feet; head up; stay strong on the ramp and in the air; handle pushed down low with straight arms; head up in the air; head up in the landing; feel it vs. see it.

    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    RichardDoane
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,919 Mega Baller
    Two other cues that often work. To "lean into the ramp" think about going up a set of stairs. If you go up the stairs on your heels you'll fall backwards. Natually you "lean into" the stairs to maintain your balance. The natural reaction seeing that Big Red wall headed toward you is to lean back to 'take' the hit. Do that and you'll fall backwards - every time!

    For body position all you've said sounds pretty good. Another way to 'get the feel' for your body position on the ramp is to stand about 2 feet from a wall (or post) looking down the length of the wall left shoulder facing the wall. Feet shoulder width apart handle in hand like you'd be at the ramp (left handed baseball bat grip). Now, while keeping your upper body basically vertical and head up, lean over to the wall using your hips and knees, weight on the balls of your feet. If you can maintain that kind of "edge" into the ramp (assuming we're past the basic plop jumps), you're in good body position.
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    My two son's jump experiences were vastly different and I attribute that to the fact that my younger son (good times) was instructed by folks that coach beginner jumpers all of the time, and my older son (doesn't want to do it) was coached by well meaning people. For us it was more than just the availability of the mini-ramp. It was learning to ride the skis well with proper form. It was learning the proper path for a plopper - very different, before even going over the mini-ramp. When I saw how my younger son was coached and his safe results I wished I had put my older son through the program. If my older son ever gets interested again I'll put him in a proper program.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,063 MM Trick Skier / Eccentric Person
    Jump coaching matters more in jump than any other discipline! I had terrible jump coaching when I started - I not only suck at jumping but it isn't that much fun for me. Kirk has had great coaching (thanks Connie and Terry) and he is quite skilled and has fun with it. Plus he has not been injured jumping.

    Eric
  • Brian_MBrian_M Posts: 54 Baller
    edited August 2012
    AND when going over the full ramp for the first time, tell your kids NOT to let go of the rope 10ft in front of the jump. This is a pic of my sister circa '89.

    *Don't worry, I made sure she was okay...right after I got a few pics!
    cwillygood
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    @elr - who coached your younger son / where?
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    @ToddL - the staff at Bennetts, Jay oversaw everything.

    @kfennell - I would go to Lori (IIRC she was staff at Bennetts) as early/often as possible.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • elrelr Posts: 215 Mega Baller
    @kfennell - Freddie's sister + staff at Bennetts (nothing but praise for their beginner program) is hard to beat for a jumper starting out.
    Ed Rink - LSF Texas
  • gregtegregte Posts: 9 New Baller
    Fluid Ski has the best learning program out there IMO. Scot Ellis will actually ride over the jump with first time jumpers, talking to them the whole way and even hold on with one hand to help the balance. My son (8 yrs old) did it with him last year and loved it. He was sticking landings by himself over the top first day on jumpers.
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 4,496 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    I rode jumpers a lot as a kid for fun cutting hard and popping some serious air off the wakes. Never jumped until in college forced into it at regionals as one of our jumpers got hurt. Landed no problem...I think it speaks to the "ride the skis" advice mentioned above. I hammed it up on the way to the jump popping off the out of the hole roller, picking up my skis and slapping them down, taking a big counter cut...then coasted slowly across the wake, stood there frozen and went 35 ft.
    Dave Ross--die cancer die
    ToddLPJ
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 3,919 Mega Baller
    I learned at age 40, it's taken 8 seasons, but 3 more feet and I'm in the century club !
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
    skidawg
  • TurtleTurtle Posts: 6 Baller
    Ham Wallace...I think we knew each other back in the day.. Anyway, the name sounds familiar.
    Ron Trobaugh here. I skied out of Ohio in the 60's.
  • klindyklindy Posts: 1,919 Mega Baller
    @richarddoane‌ wait later..... :)
    Keith Lindemulder
    AWSA Vice President
  • ToddLToddL Posts: 2,701 Mega Baller
    Wow... an old thread bubbles up to the top. Timely, though. My son finally went off the ramp, sort of. Now, he is asking when he can get back to the lake to go over the top.
    -- The future of skiing depends upon welcoming novice skiers regardless of age to our sport.
    Bulldog
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