double boot starts

toad517toad517 Posts: 1
edited May 2009 in Technique & Theory
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Hey all, just put a double boot on a Mapple and had a hell of a time getting up.  Granted, I was on limited time and only gave it a few shots.  Got up twice, loved the feel of the double, but then then on the afternoon run, I simply couldn't get up.  It wasn't a 'tired' thing, it just wasn't working for me.  Any tips for starting with the double when all I ever used is an RTP?  Thanks.
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Comments

  • RogerRoger Posts: 1,609 Mega Baller
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    Back to basics. Keep your knees well bent and let your arms out straight. Maintain that position until the boat pulls the ski onto plane. Then stand up. You're most likely trying to stand up before the ski has come on plane and wearing yourself out.
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    Roger B. Clark - Okeeheelee skier. Senior driver, Senior Judge
  • ScarletArrowScarletArrow Posts: 836 Crazy Baller
    Try a little softer pull from the boat...you'll need to stay in the water longer, but the rope won't get pulled from your hands from the added force.
    Anthony Warren
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 4,001 Infinite Pandas
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    Perhaps your rear boot is too stiff.
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    I couldn't get up on hardshells the first time I tried. I now use double hardshells but I have taken the top clip off the rear shell and replaced it with a rubber band. I have also softened up the shell as much as possible so it really flexes well fore and aft.
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    When I first switched to double rubber boots, I used a medium front and a large rear. That transition was easy - sort of. Having to get up with a foot in the back is much harder on my back than dragging a foot. Two foot starts are never that easy. But I personally feel that the safety of double boots is worth it - when I went back to the toe kick I ended up hurting myself (not seriously but a pain).
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    Eric
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  • MarcoMarco Posts: 1,431 Crazy Baller
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    Besides what is mentioned above, be sure the rope is on the correct side of the ski.  LFF the rope should be on the right, and vise versa for RFF.  Also, try tilting the tip of your ski slightly to the front foot side  before the boat is put in gear for stability.  As the boat starts to go, the ski will straiten out as you start to rise.  Be sure you have at least 8" of tip out of the water.
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  • mike55mike55 Posts: 86
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    e-ski said he used a larger rear boot when trying a double setup. Not being able to lift your rear heel a bit seems to have kept me from utilizing a rear boot. If you are going to double up starting with a larger rear imo is a good idea. This will give just enough lift. Its all personal preference and feel. I use a Wiley Pro Build front with a rear toe. I start with both feet in.  Takes way more patience than I have to adapt to a double setup. Using a rear toe seems to help me with my front ankle injury to get up on the front of the ski easier. An alternative would be if you are looking for more leverage/power you can have that with a single hard boot with rear toe plate like the 'E' series from Fluid Motion or the Reflex system. Injuries can happen on any system. Keep your knees into your chest and even pressure on both boots. Straighten your arms and bring shoulders back lowering handle toward hips/waist as you come up on plane.
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  • Ed_ObermeierEd_Obermeier Posts: 1,345 Crazy Baller
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    Something I tell beginner skiers in double boots that seems to always work.  As the ski is coming onto plane roll up onto your toes.  The effect will be that you're pushing down on the front of the ski which makes it more stable and planes it out.  Seen it work numerous times when nothing else did; that's pretty much how I get up to this day.
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    Ed
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    Ed Obermeier - owner, EZ-Slalom Course Systems
    www.ez-slalom.com
  • otisgotisg Posts: 87 Baller
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    A good boat driver can make all the difference, particularly for a big guy. Start slow and steady on the throttle until the skier's head starts to be seen  above the tip spray- Then you can throttle the rest of the way until the PP or ZO engages. The tendancy is to hit it too hard for bigger guys - the hands and forearms can't take the dynamic load.
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  • mopowpowmopowpow Posts: 318 Baller
    Ed is right about rolling up on your toes.  Another thing that helped me is to raise the heal of your back foot (if you can) during the start.
  • JAGJAG Posts: 178 Crazy Baller
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    Toad, went through the same thing when I got an F1 last year and Draft's. Had always used RTP (for 30+ years) and was getting frustrated. My buddies worked with me and it became a no-brainer after a few weeks when I did the following:
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    Bring your front knee up to your chest and extend your arms to the handle
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    If RFF angle the ski to the right, rope on the left
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    Have the driver progressively accelerate. IOW, get a driver that knows what they're doing. Slamming the throttle doesn't work
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    Above all, keep your legs loose and relaxed and don't stand up out of your crouch until you're on the water. The more I can get into a crouch the easier it is for me.
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    Best of luck to you.
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    RPG
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  • GAJ0004GAJ0004 Posts: 1,095 Baller
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    I was helping out a new slalom skier over the weekend. He just learned to get up on the slalom ski from a pair of combos last year. He has upgraded to an O'Brien World Team slalom. He was struggling to get up on his new ski.  I have taught lots of beginners over the years. The thing that hinders everyone doing a deepwater start is trying to stand up too early. If you are adjusting to a double boot, remember to roll your body into a ball. Stay in the tucked position, knees up to your chest, and keep your wrists around your ankles just like you always do when you start. I have found the key is don't try to stand until you feel the ski start to push you up. It will save you a ton of pulled, muscles, and frustration.
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    Gary Janzig Streetsboro Ohio, skis at Lake Latonka, Mercer Pennsylvania slalom,trick,kneeboard,barefoot
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