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Low Profile Dual-Lock

Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
Anybody ever tried it?

Technical spec: http://www.itapestore.com/technical_data/dual_lock/duallock_SJ4570_sj4575.pdf

And the regular stuff's spec: http://www.itapestore.com/technical_data/duallocksj355_.pdf

If I'm reading everything right, I believe mating this stuff with itself has about 75% of the holding power of 250-to-400 (and more than 250-to-250).

And the interesting part is that it's less than half as thick. 250-to-400 shows a mounted thickness of about 1/4", while the low profile stuff (on both sides) claims a mounted thickness of less than 1/10".

I've never seen any evidence that the extra thickness of Dual-Lock is a bad thing, but this stuff might be an interesting option to get a setup that is even more similar to mounting directly to the ski?
Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan

Comments

  • Chuck_DickeyChuck_Dickey Posts: 1,462 Crazy Baller
    Be very careful, I think most of dual lock types are designed for static applications and can easily let go when flexed.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    So far I can't find any technical data suggesting any fundamental difference from the 250-to-400 except for the holding power and related stats.

    But since I don't really have a need for the lower profile, I'm probably not gonna be the guinea pig.

    Somebody report if you ever try it!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,962 Mega Baller
    I was hoping to get video of @Than_Bogan trying it out.
    Mark Shaffer
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan‌ you have a new binding system anyway. Let someone else do it but I still expect video of the first wake crossing.
  • rfarfa Posts: 249 Baller
    @Than I thought you had the new OB4...where does the dual lock come in???
    Rui Afonso
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    Semipermanent mounting without drilling 8 new holes.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan‌ while you can't ski just send it to Goode and have them do it for you.
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,962 Mega Baller
    Goode's holes never seem to be in exactly the right place anyway. On my N1 I have to have the binding all the way back and use dual lock to get the rear binding in the right place.
    Mark Shaffer
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    @Chef23‌ @Than_Bogan‌ I would send it in and mark the ski why a silver sharpie where you want the holes to be drilled
  • gator1gator1 Posts: 591 Crazy Baller
    I haven't seen an OB4 up close. If the plate mounts to the ski with a pair of holes and the rest are slotted, then they've tried to minimize its compressive effect on your ski's flex. However, using Velcro will add some of the compressive strength of the plate to that of the top skin of your ski.

    Using thinner Velcro will reduce the distance from the center, and minimize the stiffness add. Whether that is an appreciable change would require more thinking.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    @MattP Interesting thought! I've sent an email to check in with Goode on that possibility. I've actually come to really like the Dual-Lock over the years, but it's not completely clear that it's a good idea with OB4. The OB4 guys are currently educating me.

    @gator1 What you're saying makes sense, but I've also heard the case made that Dual-Lock allows your ski to flex more naturally that using screws, because the mushrooms can move up and down in a small region within the Dual-Lock. The lower profile stuff would actually be less able to do that.
    Oh, and the answer is that the OB4 plate is entirely slotted. If I do end up using inserts and screws, I'll almost definitely get a Mikro-Just to make it easy for me to keep it in place.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan‌ I would suggest 3M Auto Trim tape over Dual-Lock to mount the OB4 if you don't do inserts.
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 599 Water Ski Industry Professional
    The OB4 plate hole pattern matches the HO EXO hole pattern exactly, and should also match Connelly and D3, with the additional slots we have. However, sometimes in manufacturing, not all inserts end up in the correct spot or straight. Goode should put their inserts in the same pattern as everyone else so that binding choice is not an issue.

    Using the dual lock raises the plate off the ski. Height off the plate is a concern to some skiers and has an effect on edge to edge leverage. And while it could work, if the OB4 system releases along with the dual lock, you will lose the plate and release mechanism. Use 3M Auto Trim along with screw inserts that match to avoid adding inserts.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    edited July 2014
    I certainly hope Goode will eventually get to a standard insert pattern! Furthermore, I hope all of the manufacturers will make the "extra" front and rear inserts be at least an option, as many modern binding systems use them.

    Depending on how much sense @mmosley899 can talk into me :), I may end up being a guinea pig for a Dual-Lock OB4 installation. If so (and I survive), I'll eventually report back. But I'm trying really hard not to make any "reports" quite yet because I have so much to learn and I'm not even skiing yet!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,962 Mega Baller
    edited July 2014
    The Goode hole pattern is a standard pattern as my Strada front and HO RTP both fit the problem is that the holes aren't in the right place. I can't get my rear binding far enough back.
    Mark Shaffer
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan‌ Goode does use the standard hole pattern it just seems that the skis come back with an insert or two a little off center.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    edited July 2014
    @MattP Ok. I've got two that are "a little off center" and two that aren't even close to the OB4 slots. And of course I don't have any in the far front and rear.

    FYI, the key reasons I've come to really like the Dual-Lock are: 1) Screws never back out (because there aren't any). 1a) Nothing moves unless I want it to. 2) Still relatively easy to make very fine adjustments if I decide I need them. Just have to bust out the crowbars to unmount and hammer/peg to remount.

    The extra height on the ski and reduced edge response may actually be features for me, because my balance isn't great and I move around on the ski a lot more than I wish I did. (Indeed that's probably part of why I had so much trouble with Fogmans a decade ago.) It's a fairly bogus statistic (because the causation lies more with the ski), but neverthless it's true that I've run nearly all of my -38s with a Dual-Lock mount. So there's also just some psychological comfort there.

    Not saying I can't change, just explaining my bias. I'm still learning more about the OB4 system and why it may or may not be a good idea to use 400-to-250 Dual-Lock for a permanent-yet-changeable mount.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • HortonHorton Posts: 27,862 Administrator

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  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    @Horton VERY INTERESTING! Anybody ever use a Click Bond stud for a binding installation?

    Now I'm gonna hafta waste the rest of my morning reading up on Click Bond studs!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,962 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan Reflex used to use them for application to their skis and used to sell them on their website. I think they have gone to a plate similar to Goode now.
    Mark Shaffer
  • Chef23Chef23 Posts: 5,962 Mega Baller
    Mark Shaffer
    Than_Bogan
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,005 Mega Baller
    Reflex also has a bond plate that is 3M auto trim tape that covers the bottom of a G10 plate with studs coming out of the top, though not the pattern for OB4. If you don't want to drill the Reflex Bond or Bonf studs might be a good option
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