fin set-up for warmer water

skisprayskispray Posts: 238 Crazy Baller
edited July 2009 in Technique & Theory
Hey, I'm just wondering what the general consensus is on what adjustments to the fin should be made for warmer water.  The water at my lake is disgustingly hot now and the ski isn't feeling the same as it used to.  Thanks for the help.

Comments

  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,288
    Schnitz told me that you should increase the dft .001 for every 1 degree of water temp rise and decrease it .001 for every degree of drop. This is from a baseline where you know the ski works.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,532 Administrator
    Listen to the Rossi interview . . . .

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  • skisprayskispray Posts: 238 Crazy Baller
    <p>
    I agree with Rossi about the importance of having your fin set up by someone who really knows what they're doing.   I've luckily had the experience of having an expert set up my ski before and it makes a world of difference.  However, for many people - including myself - the resources aren't available right now to do anything like that.  Since my ski is already set up I'm not trying to change anything major, I'm just wondering about minor adjustments for large differences in water temperature.  I have my current numbers written down so I plan to move back to them in three to four months when the water cools down.  So is it backward or forward with DFT?
    </p>
    <p>
     This also brings up an interesting point: What options are available to people who haven't amassed a great deal of experience adjusting fins and don't really have the option of skiing with a pro who can help them out (I'd guess this is 99% of skiers if you include people who don't do tourny's).  Even if you do get a chance to go to ski school or florida or whatever, the time between a ski purchase and that trip could be a complete waste if - as Rossi suggests - people leave their fins alone.  Video fin set-up similar to Seth Stisher's video coaching?  Now that I think about it, every ski company should provide such a service upon ski purchase!  Ok maybe I'm getting carried away but wouldn't that be nice?
    </p>
  • tsixamtsixam Posts: 372 Baller
    <p>
    Dito Brent
    </p>
    <p>
    Tsixam
    </p>
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,288
    edited July 2009
    Brent, something's not making sense here. I agree with decreasing wing angle doing much the same. When the water warms up, the ski rides deeper and you want to decreease tip pressure. But decreasing wing angle is the same as increasing DFT, ie moving the fin forward, not decreasing it. When you decrease DFT, you increase tip pressure just like when you increase wing angle you increase tip pressure. 
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,532 Administrator
    I do not play the water temp game but skispray talks about not havening access to pro advise. This is a perfect time to use video coaching with Seth or Wade Williams.

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  • robertoroberto Posts: 85 Baller
    edited July 2009
    <p>
    skispray
    </p>
    <p>
    Check out your technique first! Mid season you have probably forgot all the good things you were doing at the start of the year. I know for sure I am not doing some things as well as I was early this season. Countering, staying open, patience etc. I've got a bit casual/frustrated  and not performing some of the right moves as well as I could. Hence my mid season slump!! As the wife told me the other night, " your cr**p, you were much better in May".
    </p>
    <p>
      You can play with numbers all day and get nowhere, but a decent counter on an offside turn can bring the feeling back.
    </p>
    <p>
    Good luck
    </p>
    <p>
    Roberto 
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>

     
    </p>
  • ForrestGumpForrestGump Posts: 6,288
    Horton, What's your water temp in the summer? Just curious. We're up in the high 90s here.
    Shane "Crash" Hill

  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,532 Administrator
    beats me. 80ish I guess.

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  • aguylikesharkaguylikeshark Posts: 140
    edited July 2009
    <p>
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is Shane's orig post with some comments inserted in (   ) 

    >Brent, something's not making sense here.  When the water warms up, >the ski rides deeper and you want to decreease tip pressure.  (YES)
    </p>
    <p>
    But decreasing wing angle is the same as increasing DFT , ie moving the fin forward, not decreasing it. (NO, a reduction in wing angle will feel more like a decrease in DFT in the pull, and feels like a reduction in tip pressure offside, but will put the tip lower onside)  When you decrease DFT, you increase tip pressure just like when you increase wing angle you increase tip pressure. (Yes, but it's a bit more dynamic and complex: decrease DFT supports the tail of the ski more, putting the tip lower most noticeable at the offside finish and onside pre-turn, and reduces slip in the ski so both turns are rounder. increasing wing angle trims the ski by pulling the tail down when you are on your back foot, and sucking the whole ski down when you move to your front foot.)
    </p>
    <p>
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Everything cues off the boots, which control the overall perforamnce of the ski. So to make a true water conditions/temperature correction you have to move your boots, then the fin and wing follow suit. That is why on the E boots we devised a micro-set fastener system with neoprene backed SS washers to cushion and grip the plates so we can use 100% slotted holes. 
    </p>
    <p>
    The wing's action is dynamic and mulit-faceted. But in softer water the wing angle would need to increase to have the same force applied to the ski as in cold. 
    </p>
    <p>
    You can make technique changes, you can make just one or a couple of fin adjustments (what I call the wrong move for the right reasons) it all depends on what you are willing to accept as a skier. For me it's not about ball count, it's about riding a ski that rips and rips and rips no matter what I'm doing on it, how rough it is, who's driving, etc.. 
    </p>
    <p>
     
    </p>
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