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Binding adjustment for radical on-side?

Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
edited July 2014 in Skis Fins Bindings
Just looking for additional opinions to help speed my transition to semi-hard shell rollerblade boots (from rubber T-factors).

I've only skied two sets (as I'm coming back slowly after some back trouble), but am beginning to feel somewhat comfortable in some places in the course. In fact, my off-side turn is super-sweet.

But my on-side is much too radical, and more so as the line shortens.

Since I haven't changed anything about the ski, I'm really only considering binding adjustments -- at least for now.

What binding adjustments (position of each, rotation of each, even cant) do people recommend to de-radicalize an on-side, preferably without changing much of anything on the off-side?

Additional info in case it helps:
1) My on-side pull is also still a little uncomfortable, with the sensation being a little tail-riding sometimes leading to launching off the second wake. But this seems to be slowly going away on its own, as I get used to the feel of the rollerblade boots.
2) I tried to mount my front boot dead straight and my rear boot with the same toward-little-toe rotation that I had on my rubber boots. But I don't really have a good way to measure that and anyhow a rollerblade boot might want a different rotation than a rubber one.
3) The spacing between my boots is almost as close as possible (including cutting the rear toe off), but I probably could get another 1/4 inch closer with a little more effort.
Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan

Comments

  • skiepskiep Posts: 309 Solid Baller
    Than, Try - Not so tight First (buckel/straps looser) and maybe second rotate front boot to little toe. Rotation will put less ski in the water on on side turn but more on off side
    Than_BoganWaternut
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 856 Crazy Baller
    a straighter back boot will mellow out the on side turn
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,811 Mega Baller
    Definately the top buckle - I filed off the tooth after the one I use.

    So once I hit where I want its the same spot always - this is a variable I don't like.

    Similarly the buckles across my foot are modified so they aren't ever too tight - as what feels good on the dock SCREAMS at you later.

    The canting is one that if you can just try to stand on the ski on the dock in a ski form and have someone snap a picture of the frontal view of your legs you'll be able to see mostly what you'll want to do. Typically a few shims does it.
    Than_Bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    @Deanoski That actually sounds logical to me, but I think most people are saying the opposite?
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    Thanks so much everyone (and keep 'em coming). I can see I'm going to have to make some marks to be able to tell where the buckles are.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • DeanoskiDeanoski Posts: 856 Crazy Baller
    Than you can count clicks on the buckles so they are same each time. mine are 2 on the bottom 4 on the instep and 8 on the top. I turn my back foot to the little toe to get a more aggressive onside turn and it worked for me. easy to try. what works for one person way not work for you in this crazy sport we are in. try one thing at a time start with the easy stuff.

    good luck
    Deano
    Than_Bogan
  • skosneyskosney Posts: 57 Baller
    I transitioned to a Reflex front last fall and I initially set the boot angled slightly to the small toe (I'm sure that toe has a name) as I got use to the new boot I moved to a straight position. I run my RTP slightly to the small toe as well, just like I did with a rubber front binding so no changes there. In addition I don't over tighten my top buckle to help maintain good forward flex. I crank down the middle buckle to firmly hold my foot against the boot/ski.
    ... just ski.
    Than_Bogan
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,811 Mega Baller
    @skosney - in medicine that's usually called the 5th toe.

    I can say from a skeletal alignment stand point rotating the toes externally encourages the foot to pronate, rotating internally causes the foot to supinate. You can try this sitting where you are.

    Now I think it would be an interesting project to stick some gridlined paper to a top deck of a ski, and actually take a picture of where the axis of the boot falls in relation to the top deck of the ski. External rotation would move the axis of the foot externally, but if this encourages the foot to pronate towards the big toe, and the big toe remains on its side of the ski, it could just free you up to transfer weight that way?
  • skialexskialex Posts: 910 Crazy Baller
    @Than_Bogan‌ is it possible to move rear boot forward without moving the front one? Do your best to gain that 1/4" , it can make great difference!
    Good luck!
    A_BWaternut
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    @skialex Yes and I am prepared to do that. However, it's a little bit of a "project" whereas some of these other options may take just a couple of minutes.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • skialexskialex Posts: 910 Crazy Baller
    I ski Reflex with a RTP, toes are under the heel block almost touching front boot and it works great for me. Two weeks ago I had forgotten to take my boot and had to ski on my spare which is a newer model with the block upside down , It was blocking my toes to seat as close as usually do and the result was a more radical onside (it was like I had changed ski settings).
    In your case you have the shell and the liner between your toes and front shell, I would cut the tip of the shell in order for the liner to sit closer to the front heel, I believe it worth the try and the risk of throwing away a good boot.
    If over tightening the buckles is also an issue, I solved that by taking off the buckles like in the picture below, result is also a cleaner longer lasting boot.
    Good luck,
    Alex,
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    Aren't transitions fun?! A rear boot rotated towards little toe makes on-side more powerful, so straight may be better as well as rear binding further forward. A fin change may also be needed to compensate for the increased support.
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,149 Mega Baller
    Straighten back boot.
    Push it forward.
    Move fin back .003 or so. Which is what I would do so I didn't mess with my stance.
    Than_Bogan
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,660
    I wonder if the hard shells are accentuating a slight technical issue with your on side Than?
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' Boat 2005 Nautique 196 6L ZO - Ski - KD Platinum

  • A_BA_B Posts: 4,149 Mega Baller
    Somewhere along the line, maybe when I was on hardshells, (first generation), the rule was to mount them slightly forward of where you had your rubber boots. Maybe some of the current riders can comment on that. I think it had to do with less flex than the rubber, or whatever. Than, why not try it and see what happens?
    Than_Bogan
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    This is all super-helpful, folks, and I'll get to more of this as I need it (which I suspect I will).

    But I did make a step forward by loosening the top buckle of the rear boot last night. This got me through a -35 that had a lot of really ugly elements, but some compensating really nice elements.

    Interesting moment for a reflection: Coming right off a back issue, skiing on a new boot type, and facing a bit of backwash, I apparently can still gut through a -35. Can't quite believe I've reached that point. :)

    Definitely not ready to try -38, though. I had several moments at -35 where I might have gone out the front, suggesting a high chance of injury trying a true "reach" pass. Gotta get -35 really feeling good before I take this new setup into Purpleland.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    SkiJay
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    @ozski Yes, but cross out "slight." However, 30 years hasn't been enough to fix my on-side, so I'm looking for some shorter term solutions...
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
  • SkiJaySkiJay Posts: 2,314 Mega Baller
    Measuring binding to tail is far from exact among different bindings, and binding placement is a very likely culprit here. Playing with binding placement is a must with any new binding or ski because exact measurements might only get your actual ankle to within a quarter if an inch of where you think it is or where it needs to be.

    If you can review some video, @Than_Bogan‌, look to see if the water is breaking further back, and more importantly, if the radical on-side is a result of the tip biting too hard with the tail holding (better lateral support), or if the tail is washing out and over rotating you (binding placement and/or longitudinal restriction).
    www.FinWhispering.com ... Your ski should be your dance partner, not a wrestling opponent
    Than_Bogan
  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,511 Crazy Baller
    edited July 2014
    Rotating the front boot to the little toe will improve your offside. Then when onside and offside are a little too radical you can tweak the fin to slow them both down.

    In fairness though, I would put 2-3 more sets on the new boots before getting too carried away. If you start messing with the learning curve too early, you may plateau before ever reaching normal buoy count.
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,476 Mega Baller
    So crud! I just remeasured everything before considering my next move and -- you guessed it -- I didn't have them mounted in the same place as my rubber boots had been. Grrr. Sometimes measuring three times isn't enough I guess.

    So anyhow more chopping of the toe and the bottom line is I've move my front boot back 3/16" (and thus also close the gap between the feet by 3/16").

    I'm sure this won't resolve everything, but starting in the same effin' place would be nice!
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
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