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What Is a Reasonable Entry Fee For a NCWSA Tournament?

chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
edited August 2014 in News & Other Stuff
I thought I'd make this poll to gather more opinions on this, without going completely off-topic in a different thread.

Try to use the logic of a college kid on a drinking team... I mean, ski team. What would be a fair cost for each skier entry to a regular season collegiate tournament (excluding regionals, nationals, and all-stars)? Consider that each team will likely carpool to the tournament and cram into as few hotel rooms as possible - dividing up the group costs at the end of the weekend. Please explain the logic of your answer.
Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?

What Is a Reasonable Entry Fee For a NCWSA Tournament? 20 votes

$25
20%
footloose42LittleRipperNasonBraceMaker 4 votes
$30
35%
mlangedislandRichardDoaneThan_Boganchris_loganJibboBCM 7 votes
$35
30%
MattPlottawattaIheartJumpMichaelGoodmanRazorRoss3Brady 6 votes
$40
15%
webbdawg99IlivetoskiThe_MS 3 votes
>$40
0%
«1

Comments

  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    edited August 2014
    $40
    Maybe $35, but I'll error on the high side. Simple logic. Either EVERYONE pays a bit more, or the few that put on the tournaments pay a LOT more. Last Spring, KSU LOST over $200 that was divided among 3 club members. The entry fees are not sufficient to cover the costs associated with hosting a tournament. Period.
    E_T
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
    $30
    I look at in terms of total cost for the weekend on each skier (big picture). Once I factor in (per person) $12 hotel, $40 food, $35 beverages/bar, $33 gas. This brings total cost per skier per tournament to $150/tournament. Multiply that by 3 tournaments per season, and you have a no-job college kid asking their parents for $900 (per year) across two seasons (fall/spring) to go to tournaments.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • E_TE_T Posts: 620 extraterrestrial trouble maker
    It should be
    Total cost / # of skiers = entry fee

    Or clubs who host aka Whitestone can be nice to the college kids and cut them a break on pricing and just charge for fuel used.
    E.T. phone home!
    I like reese's pieces

    "Leave nothing on the dock"~AM
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
    $30
    @webbdawg99 Understood. That's why I wish that spring tournaments carried more meaning so that attendance would be higher. Auburn lost money (as little as $50, high as $300) on every spring tournament they've held in the past 7 years. If the people don't show for the tournament, then what's the point? Why have spring tournaments if all they do is lose money?

    Maybe have a seasonal team fee that is held by the conference and used as necessary to make sure each tournament breaks even. At the end of the season, whatever is left can be redistributed back to the teams. Look at it as a tournament contingency fund.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    $40
    Those same clubs you're referring to @E_T also provided and or housed ALL the officials for the tournament. Do you know what the hotel cost was in the Spring? Zero. Trust me, I'd like to see the policy change....and I'm working on it.....but you can't ignore other facts as well.
    chris_logan
  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    $40
    @chris_logan I agree that an attendance and/or financial commitment from each time is a good idea.
  • E_TE_T Posts: 620 extraterrestrial trouble maker
    @webbdawg99‌ ya that's is a good point about the officals
    E.T. phone home!
    I like reese's pieces

    "Leave nothing on the dock"~AM
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,347 Mega Baller
    $35
    We charge $35/skier and a $10 camping fee/camper. That is the same across the Midwest in my experience.
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,347 Mega Baller
    $35
    We have discontinued the spring tournament because the math doesn't work.

    Most teams cover either transportation or entry fee, most Midwest skiers camp.
  • BraceMakerBraceMaker Posts: 3,926 Mega Baller
    $25
    I'd like to see low entry fee, with available pay to play events and entertainment/food to round out the event.

    I know that's unrealistic.
  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    $40
    @RazorRoss3‌ I'm a bit confused. You voted $35 and then go on to say you've canceled tournaments bc the math doesn't work. So you'd rather keep entry fees low even if it means no tournaments?
  • BCMBCM Posts: 200 Baller
    $30
    I voted $30, it was $25 back in 2005. It should increase as costs increase. But not at the rate of tuition... I don't remember paying for judge hotels, though we only had one tournament per weekend per region and they were generally in areas with lots of judges (they could stay at their own house, trailer, etc.). Lots of the details of that era of my life are fuzzy...
  • SDNAH2OSKIERSDNAH2OSKIER Posts: 309 Baller
    Wait a minute, I can get rid of my kid for 3 separate long weekends over the summer, TWO years in a row for $900???? Where do I send the check?
    Doug Roberts San Diego, CA ski rating: 2 balls
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
    $30
    @SDNAH2OSKIER not in the summer... more like just during the months of September and April. And the $900 is per scholastic year, so for over the course of two years it would be $1,800.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • Rpc29Rpc29 Posts: 202 Solid Baller
    I think raising the entry fee for NCWSA $5 wouldn't impact the skiers much ($20 a semester if you assume 4 tournaments) but could really help the host teams cover expenses and maybe pay for an extra couple of judges hotel rooms at a hotel where all of the late night shenanigans are not happening. Not that I would know anything about such late night shenanigans!



    Ryan Christopher
  • RichardDoaneRichardDoane Posts: 4,243 Mega Baller
    $30
    we charge kids and college skiers 1/2 the entry fee for our tournaments, so if the regular entry is $60, then $30 seems right
    BallOfSpray Pacific Northwest Vice President of Event Management, aka "Zappy"
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,185 Crazy Baller
    $40
    You hit the nail on the head with "drinking team"... A lot of people would not pay the normal something like $75 for the first pull and then $25 for each additional pull. Our dues at UC are $250 for the fall semester and that covers all of our tournament entry fees.
  • oldjeepoldjeep Posts: 3,437 Mega Baller
    You have to pay your own fees when you are on a college team?
    Chuck P
    Not a mechanic but I play one at home
    footloose42
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,347 Mega Baller
    $35
    @webbdawg99‌ I voted what we have historically charged, in the spring the Midwest has too many teams trying to host so when you raise entry above the other tournament you don't get anyone. We have a $10 camping fee we charge both skiers and spectators in an attemp to balance out the costs. Can't charge beyond what people will pay
  • IlivetoskiIlivetoski Posts: 1,185 Crazy Baller
    $40
    @oldjeep typically dues cover the entry fee.
  • webbdawg99webbdawg99 Posts: 1,067 Mega Baller
    $40
    @RazorRoss3‌ The entry fee should be the same for all tournaments in your conference to avoid situations like that. I know in the SAC, the entry fee is standardized
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
    $30
    @oldjeep it depends on the level of support that the teams get from their school. Most collegiate skiers are responsible for ALL of their costs. The usual exceptions are the schools that give scholarships, "scholarships", and/or have skiing as a varsity sport and not a club sport.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • BCMBCM Posts: 200 Baller
    $30
    @chris_logan the team I skied on received approximately $0 from the school. We paid about $300 per semester and did lots of fundraisers. The team covered entry, gas, etc. IF we stayed in a hotel, we paid hotel costs, but with 16 skiers in a 4 skier room... We generally camped unless the host site said no camping (which I didn't understand then, but I do now).

    I worked part time (for the school, landscaping, ranching, etc.) during school and full time in the summer, not hard to pay for the team, ski a lot and get good enough grades.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,937 Infinite Pandas
    What a difficult question. Tournaments serve many purposes. Competition, fund raising, team building, leadership experiences and PARTY. The worst pricing would be so high as to significantly discourage participation. The next worse pricing would be so low that the team loses money and disbands. A delicate balance.
    Eric
    webbdawg99
  • chris_loganchris_logan Posts: 358 Crazy Baller
    $30
    @eleeski A delicate balance indeed. I carry a bit of a passion for this, and here's why:

    It was only until my final 2 years of my 6 year collegiate stint (mixed in a couple years of b-team to stretch it out) that I became a somewhat decent skier (could run my opener, get points tricking, and land jumps at fairly decent distances). If entry fees had been any more than they were, I likely wouldn't be in the sport today at all. Why would I have paid more than $25 to go suck at skiing in front of peers who don't suck at skiing?? The balance of entry fees, during that time, literally is what kept me going to tournaments until I was good enough (and addicted enough) to make it a priority in my budget. I would say over half of the skiers at the collegiate tournaments are new skiers, and thus, don't necessarily have skiing on their list of priorities. If you price those skiers out of tournaments, you won't actually be making more money at tournaments with higher entry fees if the volume of skiers goes down... and then you are back to shrinking the sport, and not growing it.

    I really think that, as far as tournament costs go, a collegiate tournament should not be so much of a profit center to the host team as much as it should just be guaranteed not to lose money. Making money is what club/team fundraisers are for - sell shirts, food at tournaments, cups to a keg party, etc. All of which are optional items during a tournament weekend. But don't make it a required cost.

    @BCM I can fully related to being given a $0 budget to work with from the school. At Auburn we tried to keep the up-front costs low, to encourage membership and keep money in the bank. We then spread out the costs of each tournament weekend to those who attended the tournament.
    Always looking for a pull... Will you be my boatdriver?
  • IheartJumpIheartJump Posts: 41 Baller
    $35
    Cardinal rule: The site shouldn't lose money and the host team shouldn't lose money.

    Use young judges willing to camp, or let judges ski in the Class C for AWSA scoring and give them free entry fees.

    This assumes 1 round 2.5 events (1 trick pass). $35 is a good deal if you're skiing all 3 events!
    I'm not intimate with the amount of added work, so what's the different in effort (cost) between 1 skier sking all 3 events and 3 people each skiing a respective event?

    you could have 1 team of 10 skiers skiing all 3 and get 10*$35= 350 for that team ($11.66 per pull)

    OR, you have 1 team of 30 specialized skiiers each skiing 1 event and get 30*$35 = $1,050 for that team ($35/pull)

    I always skiied all 3 events so it was a great deal for me, but not for some other people on my team.

    what if tournaments just charge per event round (per pull?) i would think you'd get increased participation!
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,034 Mega Baller
    $35
    @IheartJump‌ There are not many full teams in our region so usually everyone is skiing all "2.5" rounds. You really make your money on the single eveners. There are some who just take 1 trick pass. Paying per pull would not increase participation in my mind at all and would lead just to less money coming in for the host team.
  • eleeskieleeski Posts: 3,937 Infinite Pandas
    UCLA has both made and lost money on tournaments. Actually, the success of the party has been the difference (optional cost to the skier). They get a huge amount of support from the skiing community but it can still get expensive to put on a tournament. Kirk worked very hard to keep the costs down and to encourage participation. Hopefully the team will be able to keep this balance into the future.

    I'll do my best to support Collegiate skiing - the best source of new blood for our sport.

    Eric
    RichardDoane
  • MattPMattP Posts: 6,034 Mega Baller
    $35
    I will add camping does not usually happen in our region due to site owners not allowing it. The MW is unique.
  • IheartJumpIheartJump Posts: 41 Baller
    $35
    when i skied collegiately i had many people show up just to support the team and party, but the USA waterski dues + high entry fees were often too expensive to convince a new skier to ski. it was absolutely a barrier to the sport. but there were plenty of people that would have gladly skied 1 event for $20. (wakeboarders tricking, or people who wanted to try to land a jump). convincing beginners to pay for slalom was never easy
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