Video: Testing Wakeye XTC-ST with Liquid Image EGO Camera (32off - 41off) — BallOfSpray Water Ski Forum

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Video: Testing Wakeye XTC-ST with Liquid Image EGO Camera (32off - 41off)

DetrickDetrick Posts: 46 Baller
edited October 2014 in Videos, Photos & Media
I am excited to partner with @Jibbo‌ and Wakeye. They sent me their Wakeye XTC-ST. I tested it out using my Liquid Image EGO Camera to capture the footage. Take a look at the video the Wakeye is able to capture during one of my practice sets; 32off through 41off. This is a great training tool that everyone needs to have; especially if you usually don't have someone to watch you. All you need to do is use the phone app and it records automatically. And I am even more excited about their new app that was released today for Android phones. I am now able to use their app with my phone.

Sponsors: HO Skis, Pacific Slalom, Liquid Image, Mello Marine, Wakeye, STRIVE, WOD Repair Lotion

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  • Steven_HainesSteven_Haines Posts: 1,064 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Nice skiing!
  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,356 Mega Baller
    Definitely less chatter than a normal Wakeye video. Still seems that it's hard to beat a good camera man for the cleanest video at the ball/hook up
  • BrennanKMNBrennanKMN Posts: 530 Crazy Baller
    I don't think a machine will ever beat a skilled camera operator. There is really no good way to avoid the rope slack and still have the skier in the frame.

    I know I will probably be getting a Wakeye in the spring. Some video is always better than no video!
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 429 Crazy Baller
    Regarding cameras, the Wakeye takes smartphones or POV type cameras. I'm debating getting a Wakeye with smartphone mount instead of one with a gopro/ego mount (to save $ by using my 5s or Moto X).
    Is the video that noticeably better with a gopro/liquidImage/jcam?
  • JibboJibbo Posts: 144 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @Booze all Wakeye mounts will hold a Gopro, just remove the Smartphone holder and your GoPro will fit directly onto the mount in the Gopro Case.
  • BoozeBooze Posts: 429 Crazy Baller
    @Jibbo - Cool. Are you a dealer? BOS discount?
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    My ski partner and I just got a Wakeye mount. So far we are very happy with the mount and it's ability to keep the skier in frame. Many times it is just a driver in the boat. The iPhone video is disappointing. I have tried both 30fps vs 60fps. We will try a GoPro with it next week, and maybe a Liquid Image camera.

    Back to the iPhone5 & iPhone6. Looking at the video in a frame by frame advance, it appears that the iPhone does not focus lock on the skier. It seems to focus on different object every frame. the skier, the shore, the rope, the back of the boat.... maybe different zooms settings might work better (we were zoomed at 1.25x and 1.5x) maybe go back and try 1.0x zoom.

    the iPhone6+ is really bad for video. We tried 2 different iPhone6+'s. Same result. there is significant camera shake. It appears that the built in image stabilization in the iPhone6+ works against the iPhone6+ on the Wakeye mount for getting a good video.

    Tests next week are to try the mount with a GoPro camera, and a Liquid image camera (a very small mass camera).
  • Ed_JohnsonEd_Johnson Posts: 2,227
    I have used a Sony Camcorder for years and it is virtually perfect every time.
    Special Thanks to Performance Ski and Surf and the Denali Adam's !!!
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    There is a handle pop at every buoy but it beats the crap out of no video. And for that reason, I ordered one this week. The video is plenty good for me to see what I'm doing wrong
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • I5boiI5boi Posts: 155 Baller
    @Detrick Nice boat. So this is a different app then the wakeye iPhone app? Linky?
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    Today we tested the Wakeye with a Liquid Image and a GoPro 3. Both had much better video than the iPhone. Nothing is perfect. The iPhone with the Wakeye app was the bomb starting with the GPS set speed. Easy and anyone can do. The driver can focus on driving and not taking video. As I posted in the previos post the iPhone video is almost unwatchable.

    The Liquid Image seemed to take slightly better clarity videos than the GoPrfall, but the edge distortion was less with the GoPro. The GoPro with narrow field view was a little more zoomed in than the Liquid Image at 90 deg and 1x zoom. Tomorrow I will try different video zoom settings. (Yes it is just digital zoom). The GoPro was easier to use with the smartphone app to control video start and stop. Starting and stopping video with the Liquid Image was more difficult with the manual shutter button on the top of the unit. With the Liquid Image, one can watch videos from there smart phone with the Liquid Image app. Learning curve we will get better at start and stopping camera.

    As I said nothing is perfect: ( ratings are all on Wakeye pylon mount)
    A smartphone outperforms everything when hand held. Not an option when you only have a driver.

    Day one ratings:
    Smartphone with Wakeye app. 10 out of 10 convienence.
    Smartphone with or without Wakeye app video quality 4 out of 10 (frame by frame the focus point changes)
    GoPro convince starting & stopping video (7 out of 10)
    GoPro image quality ( 6 out of 10)
    Liquid Image convince starting and stopping (4 out of 10)
    Half of the passes we tried to capturecapture today were of wait times at the islands instead of the passes. Newbee operator error.
    Liquid image quality ( 7 out of 10) skier image was better but more distortion at edges of screen.

    Summary: The GoPro and the Liquid Image are very close. Convince vs image clarity. More passes and comparisons are needed between the two on Tuesday and Wednesday.

  • bbirlewbbirlew Posts: 177 Baller
    I love when waterski gear needs 'more testing'! (As if I need another excuse to go and ski!!)
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Can you adjust image stabilization on iPhone6 to improve the video? Given the convenience of the start/stop functionality within Wakeye, it would sure be cool if we could make the iPhone6 work
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    @Texas6 I have not found a setting to adjust image stabilization or the continuous autofocus on the iPhones 6 or 6+.
  • dislanddisland Posts: 1,436 Mega Baller
    I use an old iPhone 4S with the app and video is good, not perfect, but for purposes of looking at my bad skiing its fine
    Dave Island- Princeton Lakes
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    I tried the iPhone6 this morning and your comments are spot on with respect to image stabilization. Its definitely not good video. The Wakeye is doing its job, but the camera is not. The video seems to bounce the entire time. Love the app and simplicity of leveraging GPS speed to start and stop it, but the video is almost unusable on iPhone 6
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • Rob-K200Rob-K200 Posts: 5 Baller
    +1 regarding the iPhone 6. Video is almost unusable due to the 'jello' effect. I was going to try a friend's 6+ because of the built-in optical image stabilization, but it looks like that has already been tried without good results.
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    @Rob-K200 The jello effect for the iPhone6 is a good name for it. iPhone6+ is even worse than video with iPhone6. IOriginally I thought that the image stabilization in the 6+ would make better video. We tired 2 different iPhone6+'s with the same disapointing results. The 6+ video is unwatchable. However, using the iPhone6 and iPhone6+ handheld, the video produced is phenomenal.

    Today we took more videos with the Wakeye mount and a Liquid Image camera. The camera was sep up in 1080p mode with 1.5x digital zoom. The videos are still slightly better than the GoPro videos we shot yesterday. Colors are more accurate and contain slightly better detail. The 1.5x zoom setting seemed to minimize the amount of edge distortion in the video capture.

    We are able to create nice and steady videos of the skier without losing the skier at the ball.
    The only downside is that the Liquid Image video settings need to be set up every time the camera is powered on. We only needed to do the camera setup once when we started. We set the camera auto power off at 30mins and just leave the camera on.

    Steps involved:
    1. Turn on camera
    2. Set video to 1080p
    3. Enable WiFi
    4. Connect smart phone to camera to get into settings to change zoom
    5. Set zoom to desired setting
    6. Turn off WiFi
    7. Ready to shoot video.

    The video between 1080p @ 30fps vs 720p @ 60fps are very similar in video quality. The advantage of the 60fps is that frame by frame delta is smaller distance. 30fps= 7 frames between left-right gate buoys. 60fps=14 frames between left-right gate buoys.

    With the camera right on the pylon, it is very easy to check skier stack behind the boat. This has always been hard with an observer filming video.

    The Liquid Image camera operation is not as convenient as the Wakeye App with a smartphone, but the videos are useable.

    Tomorrow I will set up the camera to 2x zoom to get more of the skier framed into the picture,
    and do some more experimenting between 1080p vs 720p video.
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    The advantage of the 60fps is that frame by frame delta is smaller distance of the skier movement. Recording a skier at 34mph, the time from left to right gate buoys was measured by the number of video frames stored.
    30fps= 7 frames between left-right gate buoys.
    60fps=14 frames between left-right gate buoys
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    Yesterday after skiing, we found a new feature in the Wakeye App. Capturing video on the smart phone (iPhone5, iPhone 6, or iPhone6+) might still be an option.

    In the Wakeye App, one can enable the auto exposure/auto focus lock (AE/AF lock) by touching the screen on the object you want to focus. We will give that a try on Monday. Not sure how easy it will be to set up the AE/AF lock with just a driver. It seems like the video will now be all in focus or all out, not just focused once in every five frames.
  • JibboJibbo Posts: 144 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @david_ski its possible the iPhone 6 video problem is a common issue
  • david_skidavid_ski Posts: 106 Baller
    @Jibbo I am not hopeful of getting video with the iphone6+ to work. I think the built in image stabilization with the 6+ is contributing to video with the Wakeye. It is not wavy like the link. It was an entire image shake. Two friends have the iPhone6+ and the video was the same. I am not sure if there is a SW patch to defeat the image stabilization. I have the iPhone6 and my primary ski partners have the iPhone5. I am hopeful that the AE/AF lock in the Wakeye app will help the 5 and 6. It will be Monday or Wednesday until we get to try it again.
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    edited June 2015
    I can try the AE AF lock this morn. Does anybody know how to switch to 120FPS in the Wakeye app? I can't find that and Wakeye recommends it to help the wavy video problem (support section on website)
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
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  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Tried the lock this morn with marginally better results on iPhone6. Would still like to switch to 160fps as recommended and try again. Here is a really bad 32 off pass from this morn, video is not good. I think we need an iOS update for this to improve
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
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  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Video won't post. Sorry
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • igkyaigkya Posts: 727 Crazy Baller
    @Texas6 can you post video on utube and give us the link? The only way I see to change the fps is under the video settings when set to slow motion, but I don't see how to do this within the wakeye app.
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    Ok, changing to 160fps and will try again with AE AF lock and post to YouTube in a bit. The video was useable withAE/AF lock however. Ran it with 1.5x zoom. More soon
    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • Texas6Texas6 Posts: 2,197
    edited June 2015
    Slow motion only offers 120fps and 240fps in slow mo, not full motion video. Anyway, here's a bad 32 off and almost equally bad iPhone 6 video. 1.5x Zoom AEAF lock

    Daryn Dean - Lakes of Katy, TX
    ***Robbed out of Hundreds of Panda Worthy Posts***
  • samskisamski Posts: 1 New Baller
    I'm going to use a Wakeye mount but not sure whether my camera should be an iphone 5 or a GoPro Hero5 Black. Anyone know whether Wakeye makes a GPS-based app for GoPro (like it does for iphone and android) that turns the recording on and off based on the boat speed? Anyone think there's a reason to choose GoPro over iphone 5 based on the video quality?
  • sailworkssailworks Posts: 31 Baller
    Lots of personal experience - it's all been stated else where:
    0. Issues are with cameras, not wakeye app
    1. iphone 5 (but not 5s) works very well -- refurbished online deals for 80$ - I bought one just for camera that works w wakeye app (GPS control)
    2. iPhone 6+ is hopeless - camera problem
    3. Don't use auto focus - lock focus at distance or at water skier distance.
    Wakeye mount and app are great !
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