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36 mph is too fast & 34 mph is to slow?

HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
edited October 2014 in Technique & Theory
There is a theory that for an ultimate high score, 36 mph is too fast & 34 mph is to slow. For most of us a little slower means more balls but only to a point. I assume I would pick up about 4 balls at 33 mph. By 30 mph I think I would start losing a lot of balls unless I went to a special ski.

The top pro skiers can crush 41 at 34 mph pretty easy but I would suggest they would run it better at 35. So the question is what is the perfect boat speed? To get farther down 43 what speed would be best?

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Comments

  • Razorskier1Razorskier1 Posts: 3,425 Mega Baller
    I've heard Wade say 35.5.
    Jim Ross
    Horton
  • Than_BoganThan_Bogan Posts: 6,952 Mega Baller
    I can't figure out why a guy who can run -38 on a freakin' trick ski when the boat is slow enough keeps bringing up the possibility that it's easier when going faster.

    Yes, there's a limit. Gotta stay on top of the water, after all. But if you carefully adapt your equipment and approach, I have little doubt that 41 off is ultimately easier at 24 mph than 26 than 28 than 30 than 32 than 34 than 36.

    Now, if you're talking pure entertainment value, I might put in another vote for 35. Fast enough for extra adrenaline, but not quite as crazy as 36.
    Nathaniel Bogan -- GUT Padawan
    Dirtjipster43
  • WishWish Posts: 8,335 ★★★Triple Panda Award Recipient ★★★
    Skied several 35s the other day by mistake. Yeeold PP was not set right. The 35s were easier. After this weekend, I may just stay there till Spring.
    >>> 11.25..a different kettle of fish. <<<
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
    edited October 2014
    Ooooo @Than_Bogan‌ Can I get you to take out your protractor & slide rule and think about it again?

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  • DirtDirt Posts: 1,711 Open or Level 9 Skier
    I have to agree with Than on this one. 36 is not too fast. I like it better but I cannot justify the 6+ buoys I will lose if I speed up. You can make a lot more mistakes at 34 and still run a pass.
    I learned everything I know not to do from Horton
  • 6balls6balls Posts: 5,788 Mega Baller
    @Than_Bogan just try to get perpendicular to the boat at 24 mph. Now do it and try to get the ski wider than the handle with sufficient distance to 'round the ball at 41 or 43. I'm no engineer, mind you.
    Doesn't there have to be enough outbound kinetic energy to sweep that wide and high?(I know I'm not speaking the engineers language here..."damnit Jim I'm a doctor not a miracle worker!"). Is it possible to generate the energy necessary to swing high and wide at such a low speed? Does simply using greater surface area of the ski compensate for the lesser speed? At the slower speed can one still stay off the water with a ski well wide of their center of mass for what must be a longer period of time to round the ball? I'm in the 35.5 crowd unless you can prove a theorum :)

    Dave Ross--die cancer die
  • wtrskiorwtrskior Posts: 704 Crazy Baller
    56.5 kph
    MISkier
  • Bruce_ButterfieldBruce_Butterfield Posts: 1,955 Member of the BallOfSpray Hall Of Fame
    @horton, interesting winter topic :D  The rule of thumb for most 32-35 off skiers is that they pick up a pass when dropping from 36 to 34. However, for many of the higher end guys who can run 39 @36 that increase quickly drops to 1-2 buoys, so a PB of [email protected]@36 becomes [email protected]@34. At the extreme end, exactly how many more buoys have Andy and Jeff run at 34 vs 36?

    I’ve also heard one high end skier say that he can still run more buoys at 35 than 34.
    There has also been a lot of time and energy spent on optimizing ski design between 36 and 34, that IMO is strong on marketing and weak on actual design differences. I don’t think the magic bullet lies in the ski.

    So, purely as a wild ass guess, somewhere around 35 might get Nate, or someone of that ilk, another buoy or 2.
    I'm Ancient. WTH do I know?
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,716
    Interesting thread, imagine if at slower speeds you could get a speed control to behave like it does for jump. Or if people skiing 34 can request a 35 pull?
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Water Ski Equipment - KD Platinum

  • RazorRoss3RazorRoss3 Posts: 1,387 Mega Baller
    I've seen the 1 ball at -38 @34 mph once this season, never broken past [email protected] -35 at full speed. That being said, the speeds have notable advantages and disadvantages.

    36:
    The boat does all the work which is awesome
    I like to go fast
    The ski rides super high on the water and you can't slow down too much
    You can make the mistake of letting the handle go too soon and still be fine

    If you long pull it is game over
    If you don't keep out bound angle, immediately game over
    If you crash, it will hurt more
    Those balls sure come at you fast

    34:
    Easier on the body
    Still fast enough for the ski to be on top of the water
    A long pull doesn't do as much damage
    Slower is just a little easier

    I've found I can bleed too much speed (ski with the same settings as it is for 36 so keep that in mind)
    You get punished significantly more for letting the handle our too soon
    You don't get to go as fast

    These are observations from a fairly consistent into -35 skier at 36 mph who has never run -35 at full speed but had trained -15 through -35 at 34 and 36. No experience to comment on for lines past -35.
    Skoot1123
  • GAJ0004GAJ0004 Posts: 1,095 Baller
    34 is easier hands down. I can get into 32 off in rough water that would be suicide at 36MPH. It also depends on the ski you are on too, and how it is set up.
    Gary Janzig Streetsboro Ohio, skis at Lake Latonka, Mercer Pennsylvania slalom,trick,kneeboard,barefoot
  • Ralph LeeRalph Lee Posts: 492
    I think 35 mph is the perfect speed. Take away 36 and 34
    ozski
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,716
    I think Nate should be made to ski at 38mph :smile:
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Water Ski Equipment - KD Platinum

  • WaternutWaternut Posts: 1,517 Crazy Baller
    Sounds like the class "open" should be re-categorized to "any speed, most buoys wins".
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
    edited October 2014
    @Waternut‌
    I have to say I think a “pick your speed challenge would be fun”. More fun would be to see the Pros do this.

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    Waternut
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 716 Water Ski Industry Professional
    You just have to match equipment, technique and speed...I can run -39 on my trick ski.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
    @mmosley899‌ yes but when you get to 41 can you get past 2 ball? Or do your dig a hole at the ball because of not enough speed?

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  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 1,815 Mega Baller
    Or... if years ago the top speed for open was 38mph and old guys was 36mph, then 37 would be perfect.

    It' getting to be winter when this stuff comes up.
    Drago
  • drewski32drewski32 Posts: 218 Baller
    Yes, 35mph is easier. at -32 off and -35, I would say 34mph allows you to get away with a lot of mistakes, while at 36mph all it takes is one long pull or loss of direction and you're screwed. In late july I was barely starting to run -32 at 36mph, but I was absolutely stroking it at 34. The main thing was I had to pull about a ski length longer, and I was literally standing there waiting for the buoy. At 36 I have to be much more fluid and efficient. At 39 and 41 a faster speed might actually be better. The speed for open class should NOT CHANGE. -36 is not too fast once you've done it for a while.
  • drewski32drewski32 Posts: 218 Baller
    @horton @mmosley899 I've run [email protected] on the trick ski at 17mph. I dug a huge hole out of the ball and still got away with it
  • Chad_ScottChad_Scott Posts: 572 Open or Level 9 Skier
    Lets go 35mph
    jayskiskidawg
  • skier2788skier2788 Posts: 804 Crazy Baller
    Talking to Andy Mapple he said he only skied 36 in tournaments practice was always 35.5 or so. Said the ski reacted the same but it felt slower so he could work on technique. So 35.5 is my answer.
    Travis Torley
  • gregygregy Posts: 2,590 Mega Baller
    Someone should have a pro shootout where the skier gets to pick there top speed. Might get interesting.
    Horton
  • mmosley899mmosley899 Posts: 716 Water Ski Industry Professional
    @horton Yes, you do dig a hole! Have to keep the speed up as much as possible.
    Mike's Overall Binding www.mobsystemrelease.com
    Sweet Home Alabama Skiing
    Senior Judge, Senior Driver, Tech Controller
  • ozskiozski Posts: 1,716
    Equipment would need to change. If a high end ski was designed to work at its best @ say 30 - 32mph that would be an interesting exercise. If your talking about the ultimate score that is and it would be a lot of fun.
    'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.'' 2021 MC As soon as it lands Water Ski Equipment - KD Platinum

  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
    I have been asking @eddie_roberts_jr‌ for a Lithium Theory for years. Now I know why I need it.

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  • HortonHorton Posts: 31,032 Administrator
    Radar dealers love it when I make up products that do not exist. Please call your local dealer and ask for a Lithium Theory

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    schafer
  • eddie_roberts_jreddie_roberts_jr Posts: 450 Water Ski Industry Professional
    You're funny John, but I guess if enough skiers wanted it - we'd just have to build it!
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